i call on the river

[PokerBob]

villain is 50/18/1.6. comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (14 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 16 BB

[psyduck]

Only thing I do different - lead the turn, then call down if 2-bet there.

[jt1]

I definitely wouldn't call the river if raised after leading the turn. but i'd definitely lead the turn.

I think I call in SB here, but if i was running bad I may fold. After calling, I may go for check raise on the flop if the situation is right but AJ OOP with EP limper and LP raiser is poop, imo.

[wheelz]

yep, lead the turn, have to call the river the way you played it.

[silencio]

I don't play at these limits but I'll give it a shot.

I don't like the flop 3 bet. You have BB and UTG who might throw some dead money into the pot and your raise scares them away. I don't know how many hands you have on villain, but at 1.6 AF he often has at least a K here. Why not let him do the betting for you as you draw for your nut flush?

If you decided to 3-bet the flop, you have to bet out on the river esepecially with this harmless 8.

I guess calling the river is fine since you really have almost no idea where you stand and the pot is quite large.

[imported_leader]

I lead the turn because I don't want him checking though a worse hand. I'd c/c the river because I don't feel comfortable folding to a raise.

[ QUOTE ]
I think I call in SB here, but if i was running bad I may fold. After calling, I may go for check raise on the flop if the situation is right but AJ OOP with EP limper and LP raiser is poop, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? If you are running bad, why would you fold a hand this good? That's horrible advice.

Its fine imo. I would probably lead the turn but I dont think it matters. You might get one more bet in then, should you hit your flush.

[Silverback]

Pre flop and flop Id do the same.

Id bet the turn and most likely call the river, with it being a big pot.

[ArturiusX]

Do you have stairs in your house?

[roy_miami]

I would checkraise the turn and check-call the river. The checkraise serves 2 purposes. Its for value against the button and protection against UTG. You don't want UTG getting a cheap shot at his 6 outer or whatever he has (hopefully lower diamonds). I wouldn't be too worried about being behind to this lagtard button and if we are, we have a pretty good draw to catch up.

[brazilio]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have stairs in your house?

[/ QUOTE ]

die goon

[axioma]

i dont understand the turn check at all really, i think its pretty bad.

otherwise i play it the same.

[Spicymoose]

No way I fold this river. He could have QJ, or maybe getting gutsy with JT or TT. As others have said, I bet this turn.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

I bet the turn, then bet/fold the river.

edit: I am stupid and did not check the stats. I would check call the river. The guy seems pretty aggro and might push hero off this hand with a worse one with a bet/fold. He does seem like the person who will bet with anything on the river. Maybe the OP can comment to this, but when I deal with guys like this I find that to be true.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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I think I call in SB here, but if i was running bad I may fold. After calling, I may go for check raise on the flop if the situation is right but AJ OOP with EP limper and LP raiser is poop, imo.


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Are you serious? If you are running bad, why would you fold a hand this good? That's horrible advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't advice. I mentioned it to get advice on my play. FWIW, i don't think AJs is that good. Hero only beats 48 logical hand combinations. He is dominated by another 50. That it is suited makes me call and, of course, if button is a LAG, I'd re-raise.

But I don't reccomend playing differently when you are loosing. I, however, do. I enter less hands. I see more showdowns. I 3-bet less. It's called tilt, and I'm not recommending it to anyone.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, i don't think AJs is that good. Hero only beats 48 logical hand combinations. He is dominated by another 50.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your range for button here?

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
What is your range for button here?


[/ QUOTE ]

Villian raises the top 18% of his hands. Off the top of my head, I had villian raising only AT, KQ, KJ as worst hands when an UTG limped. Looking at my hand chart I see that that limits him to just the top 12%. So I'll throw in KT and A9s. In my book AJs is a top 6% hand. But hero is oop. I don't think a 3-bet is terrible or even bad nor do I think a cold call is bad. Like I said, I'd check raise a lot of flops.

But to answer your question. Off the top of my head I had villian raising only KJ,KQ and AT that hero was ahead of. I now think that KTs and A9 suited are likely, perhaps QJs and KTo. Villian isn't good enough to raise suited connectors, but as a rule he may raise any suited ace.

Much of my dilema comes from the limper. We know that button isn't stealing nor will a 3 bet isolate him. Cold calling and hoping for the chance to check raise a flop is solid, imo.

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I call in SB here, but if i was running bad I may fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please dont post such horrible advice.

BTW iDERG: lead the turn, I cant think of any situatuion where a 3-bet on a previous street that just gets called should get checked on the following street. Unless you are on a pure bluff and are planning to check/fold. There is just too much fold equity in the 3-bet, lead combo that you really shouldnt be three betting if you aren't going to lead.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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I think I call in SB here, but if i was running bad I may fold.


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Please dont post such horrible advice.


[/ QUOTE ]


I hate the snideness of this forum. Pokerbob is an experienced poster. Even if he thinks that this is actual advice, there is no way he is following it. I wouldn't post it to a newbie or someone whose posts I'm not familiar with. OP posts like ten hands a day.

FWIW, i explained my comments above.

[Surfbullet]

Hey Climber,

Lets try to keep it civil please... We all realize that recommending folding b/c of running bad is poor poker, but lets try to enlighten our fellow posters instead of berating them.

to bob: I lead the turn. You will have the best hand here a not-insignificant amount of the time, and if you get raised you can safely c/f the river instead of having to call a bet as a big underdog on the end.

Also:

Why the hell did you change your name? Did you want it changed to this - did you ask for it? I tried to figure out who the hell this guy was who showed up in HUSH and made 8 posts until I opened it and figured it out from your avatar.

Surf

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't like the flop 3 bet. You have BB and UTG who might throw some dead money into the pot and your raise scares them away.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is large. Hero wants to maximize his chance of winning it. If he's behind, the nut flush draw with middle pair and a backdoor broadway draw is a strong enough to pump this pot on the flop.

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't post it to a newbie or someone whose posts I'm not familiar with. OP posts like ten hands a day.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad to hear that you wouldn't post this advice in a newbies post. Only prob with your reasoning is that plenty of noobs wander in here looking for advice and read the posts of others hoping to learn and profit.

You registered in 03 and have 1200+ posts--a new poster could reasonably conclude that they would get good advice from you. Looking at your profile it looks like you primarily post in Politics/OOT. Thats cool but I had just read 2-3 of your posts in HUSH where you make authoritative sounding comments without tons of explanation for them. This further leads to the impression of a solid poster whoes advice you can rely on. At least consider changing your location to Politics/OOT or change the tone of your posts slightly so people know how heavily to weight your advice.

Its Thnaksgiving I'm not trying to be a jerk to anyone. I just want to see this forum working at its best cause I have really benefited a lot from it.

As for AJs in a six max game against an unknown UTG limper at Party 3/6 and a 50/18 button who raises? You want to fold that in any state of mind? Sorry, but that is a horrible reccomendation and i expected more from someone who has been here 2+ years and has 1200+ posts.

Its fine to raise a question like..."how do others feel about AJs's performance in this type of situation?" if you are not sure. We are all here to learn, myself included.

And if I am wrong about AJs in this situation someone please tell me...I'd 3-bet roughly 95% of the time in this situation and call the other 5% if I got confused multitabling or something.

[jt1]

No offense taken, but I already explained my statement in two other replies before you made your post.

When I post advice, I am certain that I'm right. I also always say why I'd do a certain thing, unless the OP already knows why one would make that play as opposed to another. Sometimes, I find my foot in my mouth, but that's called learning. I don't post advice on hands that I'm not sure about.

The preflop comments was a caveat as I had no real disagrement with the pre-flop play. I threw in the 'running bad' comment just as a side note to let others know that my feeling about AJo and AJs isn't rock solid.

I am sure, however, that leading on the turn, here, is the right play.

I will more clearly phrase my comments in the future.

The Politics forum is an addicting degegenarate sphere of ignorance and arrogance. I wish I had the strength to stay away.

Happy Thanksgiving



jonny

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]

The Politics forum is an addicting degegenarate sphere of ignorance and arrogance. I wish I had the strength to stay away.

Happy Thanksgiving



jonny

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL--Thats what my wife says about HUSH.

Peace
climber

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Why the hell did you change your name?

[/ QUOTE ]
cuz I don't ever run good. it is supposed to be DERG.

I think we are behind on the turn often. Why would we lead the turn? A better hand will not fold. Am I crazy? If the hand was HU then that would be different.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we are behind on the turn often. Why would we lead the turn? A better hand will not fold. Am I crazy? If the hand was HU then that would be different.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think QQ may dump here, but that's it.