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View Full Version : Sweating Commerce 20/40: AAAA No Good? Or are they? (LC-ish)

BoxTree
11-23-2005, 11:30 PM
Sweating Commerce 20/40 NL, 7-handed

CO (tourist) posts $40.

Folds to CO. CO checks. Button (regular) makes it $240 to go. Blinds fold. CO calls.

Flop (2 players, $540): A/images/graemlins/club.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif

CO checks, Button checks.

Turn (2 players, $540): K/images/graemlins/club.gif

CO checks, Button bets $200, CO calls.

River (2 players, $940): Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

CO bets all-in for just shy of $8,000.

Button looks at his cards, looks at the board, looks at his cards, looks at CO, looks at the board, laughs, sighs, and says, "I'll get you later," as he folds AA face up.

BB (another regular) says, "You should have called."

Button says, "Nah, for 8 grand, he can have it."

BB says, "Okay, then I should have called."

Button retorts, "Fine. Maybe you would have won."

BB concludes, "Maybe? I had the Jack."

So, the only content here is...do you ever call the tourist's all-in (assuming you have him covered)? Do you ever fold?
11-24-2005, 12:03 AM
CALL. EASY CALL.


Tex
yvesaint
11-24-2005, 12:22 AM
i dunno i think id have to look into his soul first
11-24-2005, 12:44 AM
When you say Button is a regular, do you mean a regular loser? He's not willing to stick his money in with the second nuts...against a tourist?
scdavis0
11-24-2005, 12:55 AM
Seems like a pretty routine fold.

I don't even think twice.
psyduck
11-24-2005, 01:17 AM
This is a prime example of why poker is so lucrative right now.
11-24-2005, 01:23 AM
This seems like a pretty obvious fold to me.
JAP
11-24-2005, 01:38 AM
why not at least put the cards face up before folding to see how he reacts?
cero_z
11-24-2005, 02:21 AM
Hi Boxtree,

It's a fold, but whoever said they don't think twice belongs at the microlimits. AAAA requires a little looksee before you muck it; it does win once in a while.

Anyway, the dude shouldn't fold it faceup; he was just asking for the needle supplied by the BB. And, the BB was probably lying; people can never resist doing that, and it's probably worthwhile tiltwise.
flawless_victory
11-24-2005, 02:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
CALL. EASY CALL.


Tex

[/ QUOTE ]
poor tex.
i cant tell if youre joking dude?

no1, except a complete 100% sucker calls there w/ the AAAA.
amoeba
11-24-2005, 04:09 AM
no badbeat jackpot?

unfortunate.
yvesaint
11-24-2005, 04:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
no badbeat jackpot?

unfortunate.

[/ QUOTE ]

even so, wouldnt you need to use both your cards?
amoeba
11-24-2005, 04:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no badbeat jackpot?

unfortunate.

[/ QUOTE ]

even so, wouldnt you need to use both your cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm yeah. most of the time at least.
edge
11-24-2005, 04:24 AM
Yeah, calling is pretty bad. This is a weird spot, and an expert move would probably be to fold the river for a pot bet too. I doubt I could fold for a dime, but for eight it seems pretty easy.
SpaceAce
11-24-2005, 05:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
CALL. EASY CALL.


Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only is this not an easy call, this is no call at all in my opinion. I can't believe the number of people here who seem willing to call $8,000 in what was previously a $900 pot. What is all this emotional attachment to quad Aces? Yeah, quads are normally a very strong hand but everything has to be measured against the board and against that board and an $8,000 bet, quad Aces aren't so strong.

This has to be a bluff an awful lot to make calling correct and if it IS a bluff, you shouldn't have too hard a time getting the money from the bluffer later on.

SpaceAce
integrate
11-24-2005, 10:00 AM
Ouch.

I don't know if I'd be able to lay this one down. But with respect to the pot being only $900 when the guy goes all-in for $8K? That'd sure as hell make it easier to fold.
Hattifnatt
11-24-2005, 10:16 AM
Super clear fold by all means with AAAA.
11-24-2005, 10:22 AM
This is the type of hand that would give me crazy butterflies just thinking about calling. It would definitely depend on what mood I was in.

Tears
Bosox
11-24-2005, 10:45 AM
This hand was played terribly regardless.
mgsimpleton
11-24-2005, 12:12 PM
the thing that leads me towards a call with AAAA is that this is such an easy bluff with the naked J /images/graemlins/club.gif
SpaceAce
11-24-2005, 12:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the thing that leads me towards a call with AAAA is that this is such an easy bluff with the naked J /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is exactly why I think this push is the goods too often to call.

SpaceAce
Yeti
11-24-2005, 12:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the thing that leads me towards a call with AAAA is that this is such an easy bluff with the naked J /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh?
kurosh
11-24-2005, 12:21 PM
My buddy played this hand, not me. 2-5 live NL. Bunch of limpers and he checks 44 in the BB.

Flop is 4x 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif
checked around.

Turn 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
It's either checked around or someone makes a small bet, I don't remember.

River 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif
He checks. A LP straight-forward player bets and another player raises. He looks over at the first guy and can see he nearly already has all his chips in the pot, then folds. One had the 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif and the other had the 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Looks like slowplaying flopped quads is a bad idea.
mosta
11-24-2005, 12:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
bluff with the naked J /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]??
flawless_victory
11-24-2005, 12:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the thing that leads me towards a call with AAAA is that this is such an easy bluff with the naked J /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
one of the best posters in the forum 4sure.
creedofhubris
11-24-2005, 12:25 PM
The EV in free drinks for telling this story over the course of a lifetime is much higher than any possible calling EV.

"Did I tell you about the time I folded quad aces?"
Percula
11-24-2005, 01:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
why not at least put the cards face up before folding to see how he reacts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because any reaction could not be clearly seen as sign to call or fold.

Just put yourself in the place of the tourist, some guy raises your post and you have say TxJ/images/graemlins/club.gif, not a bad post hand and you call. Then by the river you have the mortal nuts and the guy next to you flips up AA for quads.
Ulysses
11-24-2005, 01:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the thing that leads me towards a call with AAAA is that this is such an easy bluff with the naked J /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

NL Omaha?
scdavis0
11-24-2005, 01:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the thing that leads me towards a call with AAAA is that this is such an easy bluff with the naked J /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

NL Omaha?

[/ QUOTE ]

good point
tdarko
11-24-2005, 01:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
no badbeat jackpot?


[/ QUOTE ]
if there was, AA calls here and calls gladly. win/win baby!
kurosh
11-24-2005, 02:00 PM
Thought you had to use 2 cards?
yvesaint
11-24-2005, 02:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Thought you had to use 2 cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

whoa, deja vu
JaBlue
11-24-2005, 04:20 PM
as cero pointed out BB is most likely lying
11-25-2005, 10:44 PM
I know this may be considered irrelevant to the actual strategy of the hand...but doesn't cracked AAAA pay a massive bad beat jackpot at that limit at commerce? Even if its less than 8k it gives better odds to call,its worth considering. Not sure if you have to table the cards for the jackpot.
11-26-2005, 02:05 AM
The guy clearly had a royal flush because if he bluffed him off quad aces he would defintely show it. I think a lot of this depends on the guy was a playing like a complete donk you'd probably need to think about. Secondly considering how rarely royal flushes come around don't you think the guy would try to get some value out of it instead of just pushing.