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11-23-2005, 08:31 PM
Mod: Not sure where this should go, so if it needs to be moved, move please.

I'm going to buy a new computer at the beginning of the year. My question is..Should I just buy one from Dell.com or should I build my own. There is no way in hell I can build it myself, but my neighbor runs a computer store and he builds them all the time for people. I've taken my computers to him numerous times to get fixed and he always has them ready in 24/48 hours.

I don't do anything crazy on my computer. Just the normal web browsing. Probably the most taxing thing I do on it is download music, but not like I did a few years ago when I was still in school. Obviously I would like to have good amount of memory, and be able to play poker with no hiccups. Also, I have 2 monitors, so I would need an extra video card.

So, you computer experts, what do you suggest?

asofel
11-23-2005, 08:36 PM
might as well just buy one from Dell. They're so cheap these days especially if you get a deal its not worth the hastle...

d10
11-23-2005, 08:37 PM
I would suggest finding someone who can help you build one and then building one yourself. The best thing about knowing how to build your computer is that you can upgrade any part of it at any time. You'll never need to buy a "new" computer again, you can just upgrade each part as they become too outdated for you. It's a lot cheaper in the long run. Also, building a computer is really not that difficult if you have someone show you how to do it.

kenberman
11-23-2005, 08:38 PM
post in computer technical help

prob have your buddy build one

siccjay
11-23-2005, 08:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It's a lot cheaper in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

DEFINTELY.

Ask your buddy to help you, or have him build you one. Even if he doesn't give you a deal it will be better than buying one from Dell.

edfurlong
11-23-2005, 08:47 PM
I'm a moron and know nothing about computers. I managed to build my own with few problems. There are tons of walkthroughs around that go step by step with pictures and such.

11-23-2005, 08:51 PM
No way I'm building this by myself, more than likely will have him just build it for me. Might watch and learn for the future.

shant
11-23-2005, 08:51 PM
I would use one of these cases (http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/brb_default.asp) and build your own.

Chief911
11-23-2005, 09:16 PM
Wait for a dell deal on the 9300 where you get a smokin computer and a 24" LCD for $900. Bonus if you buy it through small business (make up a business name) so you get US support, instead of india.

Do you think your friend is going to warranty his hillbilly computer he makes for you?

Nick

tinga81
11-23-2005, 09:21 PM
I would definately recommend that you build your own. But that is a decision that is based off how comfortable you are with making a machine, and how knowledgable you are with computers. By building your own, you are guaranteed to know what kind of parts that you have in there (vs junk from others pre-made computers).

As a final project in my video editing class in college, I made a video on how to build a computer. If only I cared enough to keep that [censored].

Good luck with your decision.

rwperu34
11-23-2005, 09:31 PM
I built two of my own last year. They were cheaper. They are now in the garbage. I bought two more with two years warranty from Fry's Electronics. Peace of mind is worth the extra money spent.

Also, the money I lost from not having a computer available to play poker more than compensated for the difference in cost. At the hourly rate we earn, you do not need a whole lot of extra down time from building it yourself to slide into -EV territory.

If your friend will warranty the computer, then that would probably be the best move. Even if he charges $50-$100/year, it will be well worth it.

Blarg
11-23-2005, 11:00 PM
Guys like Dell get giant discounts on components because of the staggering volume they buy in, so Dell can probably build one as cheap as your buddy can or maybe much cheaper.

The thing is, it's nice to have that relationship with your buddy doing it, since he's right there to fix it up for you and will likely take full responsibility. Big companies often shift responsibility off to whoever they possibly can, make you wait online forever, etc. And Dell has taken a furious pounding, repeatedly, here on OOT for poor customer service.

There are also two more things to be aware of. One is that you can't necessarily get exactly what you want at a place like Dell. They will often give you what you want only in package deals with absolute crap in them. They will also often give you a package or standalone computer that has a ton of hype and several good things about it, but several severely underpowered components. How is a novice to understand when he's getting a poorly put together package: With your friend, you're likely to get steered away from utter crap and useless accessories. This can wind up saving you money, because your money is all directed toward what you really need and want and not some garbage. And it can help you get a computer that is more upgradable.

Your friend can also be a big help in getting you really nice things like a case that's easy to open up and upgrade things in and a very high quality, standard motherboard, something that is often a problem with big makers, who can use middling motherboards and ones that are special made for them, along with cases that are very hard to work inside and upgrade with, etc.

One really great thing to do would be to see if there are classes that teach you to assemble your own computer. Or if you can pay your friend extra, or just have him help out freebie style, by showing you how to do it while you watch, and letting you get your hands dirty doing it. That will give you confidence to handle your own upgrades in the future, and a useful knowledge of your components and what computers are all about. Everyone should really know things like how to add a second hard disk, another disk drive, how to swap video cards and memory in and out, etc., and learning it from the ground up would be a great way to do it.

Basically, whatever you do, don't go for some glitzy package deal crap from a big maker without knowing VERY thoroughly what you'll be getting. Which is very unlikely. For instance, you need technical specs like how many RAM slots there will be for adding more RAM, whether there are open AGP of PCI Express slots for video cards and other upgrades, and that info is often hard to get, and the salesmen don't know jack a lot of the time. And you need to know whether you have a decent 7200 rpm hard drive or are being stuck with one of those cheapo slow 5400 rpm ones, whether your CD/DVD writer does both +R and -R, etc. Even the cost of the laser or inkjet cartridges on a printer package deal matters, and that's all hard to figure out for a novice.

Your friend setting you up could be a very good deal and well worth the extra cost he'd have to charge because he's not a huge company like Dell. And you could very easily wind up getting a much better, more future-proof computer.

MrMon
11-23-2005, 11:54 PM
I built my own computers for years because it was cheaper and I got what I wanted. Since I'm no longer a gamer, I discovered that buying a prebuilt is much more economical, especially when you buy the refurbs/returns from CompUSA. Go to the store and find the computer you want, then go to CompUSAAuctions (http://www.compusaauctions.com/), you should be able to find it 40-60% less than in the store. (If it's not up for bid now, it soon will be.) No way you can top that, you couldn't even buy the parts that cheap.

OtisTheMarsupial
11-23-2005, 11:56 PM
Buy it, don't build it.

teamdonkey
11-24-2005, 12:06 AM
i've done it both ways. The sticking point seems to be software. Do you have access to a free (read: illegal) operating system, and other programs you'd want like word and excel? Are you ok morally with using this stuff? If yes, then building your own computer is going to be cheaper. If you have to purchase these things, you're much better off just buying new.

Blarg
11-24-2005, 12:17 AM
That's pretty cool, I'd never even heard of that.

I do wonder if you're just getting someone else's lemon, though. Carting the computer back and forth to a store because it has problems could take a whole lot of time and negate any price advantage pretty darn quickly.

fluff
11-24-2005, 12:24 AM
I've always build my own in the past, however this was because I knew exactly what I wanted in it component wise.

If you don't know/care about that, chances are you are better off just buying. There really isn't that much cost savings (especially when considering shipping costs add up from different suppliers). Most of the savings come from the old parts from your current computer that you can reuse. So if your computer is relatively old (say 2 years), there is barely anything in it that can be reused. Maybe keyboard, mouse, speakers.

DeezNuts
11-24-2005, 12:50 AM
If you know what specs you want, Monarch Computers (http://www.monarchcomputer.com) will build anything from a bare bones to a full loaded system for you at reasonable prices. They will build it and test it(it takes a while for it to get to you, 8-10 business days).

I just bought and received a top-of-the-line system(athlon64, 7800 vid card, blah, blah, im not super tech-savvy) from that site yesterday. Everything came out to be around $2k w/ shipping(no monitors), but this included everything, even a water cooling system. Sadly, I haven't been able to use it because I can't install windows due to a RAID(or some other tech mumbo-jumbo) drivers installation problem. My friends guided me through the whole process and picked everything out for me. Hopefully it will be up and running by the end of the weekend.

If you go with your friend building it, you should definitely watch him, as it isn't too difficult and will makes it a lot easier if you need to upgrade any specific part in the future.

DN

Blarg
11-24-2005, 12:51 AM
Usually hard drive too, sometimes memory. Case, too. Sometimes operating system.

But you're right that the amount of things you can carry over is often pretty small and often you don't get that much worth out of it. Like, a 120 gig hard drive might have seemed great two or three years ago, but now many people can fill that in a snap, and bringing it over isn't really a huge value at all.

For me, it's far better to just leave your old computers as they are so you have a fully-functioning back-up computer at all times.

The tricky thing is really knowing what you're looking for in fairly fine detail, whether you buy prebuilt or build your own. It's hard to know where the bargains lie and where the rip-offs are if you don't know a lot about computers.

For that reason it's very helpful to have someone who is pretty up to date on computers(not just a goofy or well-intentioned friend) help you to make your decisions. There are terrific bargains at sales, if you check them every weekend in the Sunday papers, etc. But if you don't know the difference between a bargain and a rip-off, you could wind up with a real disappointment.

If you're going to do the shopping in person by drifting around between stores, I wouldn't do it without a list of minimum specs and features. Most people I know just get overwhelmed and buy something almost out of panic at a store just to get the whole process over with, I kid you not. Their eyes glaze over and they just don't know WTF they're doing, and often wind up with whatever is on sale, no matter how crappy it is.

I'd have a list of must-have's like:

- Hard drive must be at least 7200 rpm(NO 5400 rpm drives)

- HD should be at LEAST 120, preferably at least 160

- Memory(RAM) should be at least 512; 1 gig is far preferable

- RAM expansion -- must have open RAM slots if it doesn't come with at least 1 gig of RAM

- Must have RAM in the slots you have such that you can add RAM to get to 1 gig of RAM without throwing out your RAM that comes with. Example: two ram slots that let you put in up to 1 gig of RAM is fine though four slots is much better, but if those two slots are filled by two 256 RAM cards, you cannot go over 512 to get to 1 gig without throwing the RAM away that you've already got, since your slots are full. Not acceptable -- unless you're willing to throw away that RAM, which is a waste of money. Note: 1 gig of RAM is well worth having these days and will quickly become the norm in the future for games and all sorts of other things. 512 is borderline. Being able to get to 1 gig is important.

-- Video card/expansion: if video is built in, there MUST be an open AGP or PCI video card slot to upgrade the video by plunking in a new video card one day

-- Expansion slots -- should be some remaining, preferably at least two, on your motherboard(what all the parts on the computer are plugged into). Some day you may want to add more stuff in.

-- Drive bays -- there should be at least one open drive bay to add a second hard disk. It's VERY easy to fill a hard disk, and you want to be able to add an additional one later.

NOTHING that comes packaged with the computer is every an acceptable trade-off for what you want in an computer. Printers, doohickeys of all kinds, monitors, whatever -- getting one or a perceived bargain on one is not worth it if you choose an inferior computer as part of a package deal. This is very important and one of the main ways manufacturers get you to waste money is to reel you in with a bunch of accessory crap so they can totally cheap you out on the computer itself. Be wary and not easily enticed by all the colorful add-ons and accessories. You need to get a solid core to your system; accessories are ALWAYS on sale everywhere and easy to get cheaply.

Blarg
11-24-2005, 12:52 AM
This REALLY doesn't sound like a recommendation at all.

DeezNuts
11-24-2005, 01:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This REALLY doesn't sound like a recommendation at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know. I'm gonna go over to my friend's place to watch him try to get it running right now. It's been very educational just to watch. The problem isn't with any of the hardware, it's my friend trying to make the 2 Raptor HDs(10k rpm) run as one single HD so it runs much faster. He likes doing it, and I still have my old computer, so I really don't mind the time it's taking and I'm learning a valuable skill. I can pretty much put together my own computer now.

So my recommendation is to have your friend(if he is knowedgeable) put it together and for you to watch him do it and ask a lot of questions. Other than that, just get a prepackaged Dell(base-model), ask your friend what specs you should be looking for, and buy all the peripherals on your own. Most tech-savvy people have copies of all the software you need.

DN

11-24-2005, 01:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This REALLY doesn't sound like a recommendation at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've learned more in this thread thank I did asking everyone I come in contact with for the past month. At least I know why/why not to do whatever.

BradleyT
11-24-2005, 05:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i've done it both ways. The sticking point seems to be software. Do you have access to a free (read: illegal) operating system, and other programs you'd want like word and excel? Are you ok morally with using this stuff? If yes, then building your own computer is going to be cheaper. If you have to purchase these things, you're much better off just buying new.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've built my own computers for 10 years now however today this is the correct answer.