$109s - AK Hand [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Unarmed

11-23-2005, 05:51 PM

My only note says "Will bluff".

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG+1 (t925)
MP1 (t1135)
MP2 (t1915)
CO (t770)
Button (t925)
SB (t1150)
Hero (t2315)
UTG (t865)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t100, 3 folds, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t225) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t100, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t425) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t90, Hero calls t90.

River: (t605) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t175, Hero calls t175.

Final Pot: t955

bones

11-23-2005, 05:59 PM

I really don't like playing AK unimproved for value here. Did you not raise the turn because you thought he'd call anyway with the hands you were ahead of (AJ, KJ, other drawish garbage)?

Irieguy

11-23-2005, 06:06 PM

Up until the river I think you chose the best option on every street. There are certainly many options on the turn, but in the context of this SNG I don't think you want to burn any unnecessary chips.

You can't lead at the river, because a worse hand will not fold. Same rationale for a c/r.

That leaves check-call and check-fold as your only good choices. His bet amount betrayed him. Call that mofo down.

Irieguy

tigerite

11-23-2005, 06:10 PM

Yeah, I think this is the best line, a re-raise preflop is another option, but probably unnecessary and will just bloat the pot. It depends how loose he is though. If you think he will call a reraise with AJs for instance you probably should do it? Although, it might make flop play more difficult.

Post flop is pretty much the ideal way to play against an opponent who will bluff regularly.

johnnybeef

11-23-2005, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Up until the river I think you chose the best option on every street. There are certainly many options on the turn, but in the context of this SNG I don't think you want to burn any unnecessary chips.

You can't lead at the river, because a worse hand will not fold. Same rationale for a c/r.

That leaves check-call and check-fold as your only good choices. His bet amount betrayed him. Call that mofo down.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

why not reraise the flop and take control of the hand?

Freudian

11-23-2005, 06:11 PM

He will now add a note on you saying "calling station". /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Irieguy

11-23-2005, 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

why not reraise the flop and take control of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you are in perfect control already. You can regain betting impetus... but that will cost chips and I don't mind the way the hand is going at all on the flop.

Irieguy

Unarmed

11-23-2005, 06:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

why not reraise the flop and take control of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you are in perfect control already. You can regain betting impetus... but that will cost chips and I don't mind the way the hand is going at all on the flop.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

ADD:

- If he's bluffing I certainly don't want to interrupt the enemy while he's making a mistake.
- If he's actually being a dick with a real hand I don't want to get raised off my 3 nut, 1 probable, and 6 possible winning outs.

tigerite

11-23-2005, 06:26 PM

Raising would be stupid here at any point except preflop, and even then, after some thought, I'm not sure I like it.

11-23-2005, 07:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

why not reraise the flop and take control of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you are in perfect control already. You can regain betting impetus... but that will cost chips and I don't mind the way the hand is going at all on the flop.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

ADD:

- If he's bluffing I certainly don't want to interrupt the enemy while he's making a mistake.
- If he's actually being a dick with a real hand I don't want to get raised off my 3 nut, 1 probable, and 6 possible winning outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I play this exactly the same. Villain seems to be a donk so you just can't fold the river for that small a bet.

Betting impetus, haven't heard that phrase in a while.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

All this omfg content is making my head spin. I think I'll go check out the latest commentary on Yugo's trip report.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

WebGuySteve

11-23-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My only note says "Will bluff".

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG+1 (t925)
MP1 (t1135)
MP2 (t1915)
CO (t770)
Button (t925)
SB (t1150)
Hero (t2315)
UTG (t865)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t100, 3 folds, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t225) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t100, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t425) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t90, Hero calls t90.

River: (t605) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t175, Hero calls t175.

Final Pot: t955

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I like it. Sure, I put him on a bluff too, however, I don't see many bluffs you beat. Is he really going to min raise preflop with KJ? AJ maybe. What other hands are you beating here? I guess I have seen this from donks with suited connectors, but, I'd rather save the chips, raise the turn, find out where you are, and be done with it. I really see this as being a low PP, and you just got value bet like a fool /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Unarmed

11-23-2005, 07:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My only note says "Will bluff".

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG+1 (t925)
MP1 (t1135)
MP2 (t1915)
CO (t770)
Button (t925)
SB (t1150)
Hero (t2315)
UTG (t865)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t100, 3 folds, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t225) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t100, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t425) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t90, Hero calls t90.

River: (t605) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t175, Hero calls t175.

Final Pot: t955

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I like it. Sure, I put him on a bluff too, however, I don't see many bluffs you beat. Is he really going to min raise preflop with KJ? AJ maybe. What other hands are you beating here? I guess I have seen this from donks with suited connectors, but, I'd rather save the chips, raise the turn, find out where you are, and be done with it. I really see this as being a low PP, and you just got value bet like a fool /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless he has some magical read that I'll call with Ace high, the only low pockets that bet that river are 4s and 5s. Come one man stop muddying up my beautiful threads with this stuff!!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

WebGuySteve

11-23-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My only note says "Will bluff".

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG+1 (t925)
MP1 (t1135)
MP2 (t1915)
CO (t770)
Button (t925)
SB (t1150)
Hero (t2315)
UTG (t865)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t100, 3 folds, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t225) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t100, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t425) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t90, Hero calls t90.

River: (t605) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t175, Hero calls t175.

Final Pot: t955

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I like it. Sure, I put him on a bluff too, however, I don't see many bluffs you beat. Is he really going to min raise preflop with KJ? AJ maybe. What other hands are you beating here? I guess I have seen this from donks with suited connectors, but, I'd rather save the chips, raise the turn, find out where you are, and be done with it. I really see this as being a low PP, and you just got value bet like a fool /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless he has some magical read that I'll call with Ace high, the only low pockets that bet that river are 4s and 5s. Come one man stop muddying up my beautiful threads with this stuff!!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, if he's good, but, typical players are thinking "ok, he's called all my small bets, I can get him to fold with a bigger river bet! FIRE AWAAAAAAAAAY!!!" Then all of a sudden you looke like a donk when you can't beat his A4 or 33 or what have you.

Melchiades

11-23-2005, 07:55 PM

Really appreciate all the hands you've posted Unarmed. Most interesting.

raptor517

11-23-2005, 07:57 PM

well, i know you dont wanna get blown off the hand on the turn, so betting like 300-400 MAY not be the best play as you could get blown off by a raise to 1k-1200. however.. i dont mind making it like 350-450 after that weak ass bet he threw out there on the turn though.. just cuz it looks so.. weak.. and if he calls you got 20358092389523058298592809582 outs. holla

WebGuySteve

11-23-2005, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well, i know you dont wanna get blown off the hand on the turn, so betting like 300-400 MAY not be the best play as you could get blown off by a raise to 1k-1200. however.. i dont mind making it like 350-450 after that weak ass bet he threw out there on the turn though.. just cuz it looks so.. weak.. and if he calls you got 20358092389523058298592809582 outs. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely what I was saying, thank you rap.

raptor517

11-23-2005, 08:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well, i know you dont wanna get blown off the hand on the turn, so betting like 300-400 MAY not be the best play as you could get blown off by a raise to 1k-1200. however.. i dont mind making it like 350-450 after that weak ass bet he threw out there on the turn though.. just cuz it looks so.. weak.. and if he calls you got 20358092389523058298592809582 outs. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely what I was saying, thank you rap.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha sorry i didnt read yer post, just responded to the main thread. holla

WebGuySteve

11-23-2005, 08:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well, i know you dont wanna get blown off the hand on the turn, so betting like 300-400 MAY not be the best play as you could get blown off by a raise to 1k-1200. however.. i dont mind making it like 350-450 after that weak ass bet he threw out there on the turn though.. just cuz it looks so.. weak.. and if he calls you got 20358092389523058298592809582 outs. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely what I was saying, thank you rap.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha sorry i didnt read yer post, just responded to the main thread. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

no no, you put it in better words than I did /images/graemlins/smile.gif

bennies

11-24-2005, 10:24 AM

Results?
I like your line. My only concern is that there are not a lot of raising hands we beat on this flop/board. If villain is tight preflop then AJ is about the only hand we beat. If he is loose of course he could have anything (KJ, 87s etc).

bones

11-24-2005, 10:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah. Part of the reason unarmed's posts are great is that he doesn't post results. You're left wondering if he's a payoff specialist or the next Phil Ivey.

bennies

11-24-2005, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah. Part of the reason unarmed's posts are great is that he doesn't post results. You're left wondering if he's a payoff specialist or the next Phil Ivey.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I enjoy being Alice in Wonderland as much as the next fella, but not when I play poker!

Anyway, how about responding to my worries about villains range?