Lost with A9s [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Lost with A9s

nfscreech

11-22-2005, 10:29 PM

BB is 45/8/0.9
Button is 55/12/0.5

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG 3-bets, Button calls, Hero calls, BB caps, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (16 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG folds, Button types "I hope one of you made the straight", then raises, Hero folds, BB 3-bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

I don't really like my flop call after it gets 3-bet.

I've been getting different advice from players I respect about the best turn line.

On the river, I think button is trying to desperately steal this pot by confusing me and bb with his mumbojumbo. I think I have him beat a vast majority of the time, but unfortunately he just cut down on my odds to beat bb, and opened up the action again. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Thoughts?

sthief09

11-22-2005, 10:57 PM

i think i wouldve folded the flop for 2 more but i dont know if thats the right. everything else is standard

imo anything other than c/c the turn is burning money

LImitPlayer

11-22-2005, 11:06 PM

Im not raising here out of the SB, but everything else seems fine to me

imported_leader

11-22-2005, 11:28 PM

I would fold the flop. It looks like you are going to have to put in a lot of bets to see a showdown when you're probably beat and have no clean outs.

11-22-2005, 11:35 PM

if those pt stats are over any relevant number of hands, i think you have an easy fold on the flop.

11-23-2005, 01:10 AM

PF raise is good. You have to fold when these players make it two back to you.

flawless_victory

11-23-2005, 01:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to fold when these players make it two back to you.

[/ QUOTE ]
all u guys keep sayng this, but folding there looks quite horrible.

if josh hadnt mentioned it, i highly doubt folding the flop would have ever been brought up.

personally, i cap the flop every time. if you give up the lead here bad things can happen.

cokehead

11-23-2005, 01:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to fold when these players make it two back to you.

[/ QUOTE ]
all u guys keep sayng this, but folding there looks quite horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I think you played this hand fine.

11-23-2005, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
all u guys keep sayng this, but folding there looks quite horrible.

if josh hadnt mentioned it, i highly doubt folding the flop would have ever been brought up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's cap or fold. If the flop was 962 my answer would be different. Normally I want to cap here, but with this flop and these opponents I'm confident that I'm neither ahead nor staying ahead often enough to throw at least another 2.5BB into the pot.

Danenania

11-23-2005, 01:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
all u guys keep sayng this, but folding there looks quite horrible.

if josh hadnt mentioned it, i highly doubt folding the flop would have ever been brought up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's cap or fold. If the flop was 962 my answer would be different. Normally I want to cap here, but with this flop and these opponents I'm confident that I'm neither ahead nor staying ahead often enough to throw at least another 2.5BB into the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it cap or fold? Equity on this flop is [censored] even when we are best. I like calling flop and leading a good turn card.

imported_leader

11-23-2005, 01:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if josh hadnt mentioned it, i highly doubt folding the flop would have ever been brought up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey! Why isn't everyone following me? I actually gave reasons to fold the flop.

11-23-2005, 01:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why is it cap or fold? Equity on this flop is [censored] even when we are best. I like calling flop and leading a good turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm only continuing this hand if the 3 bettor's a complete retard. It's also easier for me to dump my hand on the turn (if need be) if I've defined it on the flop. If you're in a position where you don't want to spend that extra SB getting at least a 2:1 return then I don't see why you'd want to put 1BB in to go past the flop when you're not even closing the action in the first place. The pot needs to be pretty massive before you start doing stuff like that.

jrbick

11-23-2005, 02:18 AM

This is a really tough hand. I tried to find a fold before the river but I can't bring myself to it until the time that you did.

One suggestion for the turn is to simply lead out; see how BB reacts to it plus the rest of the field. Are they "tamed" by the ace and/or three-flush (the latter being extremely common for 3/6)? Fold to a raise.

I posted the above on the other thread.

To respond to the current posts:

Can we fold this flop:

1.) When we have no read on UTG yet -- could easily be pumping a draw which is extremely common at 3/6 and just as easily betting just about any card on that flop + less (assuming he's the avg. 3/6 player).

2.) When BB's cap could still mean a lot of things here. If we decide based purely upon stats then yeah, it doesn't look good. I need more information before I lay this down on teh flop though. If I don't have a read from observation, then I take the line I suggest on the turn and go from there.

imported_leader

11-23-2005, 03:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
One suggestion for the turn is to simply lead out; see how BB reacts to it plus the rest of the field. Are they "tamed" by the ace and/or three-flush (the latter being extremely common for 3/6)? Fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't fold to a raise getting 15-1 here. You have 4 outs to a full unless he has 99.

sthief09

11-23-2005, 03:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to fold when these players make it two back to you.

[/ QUOTE ]
all u guys keep sayng this, but folding there looks quite horrible.

if josh hadnt mentioned it, i highly doubt folding the flop would have ever been brought up.

personally, i cap the flop every time. if you give up the lead here bad things can happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

but its 3/6. at 30/60 yes. at 3/6 with a passive guy in there i think you are either beat or if not, have like 1/3 pot equity with horrible reverse implied odds

nfscreech

11-23-2005, 08:29 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Before I posted this, one player suggested I bet the turn in an effort to get BB to raise and clear up low spade draws. One problem I see with this is that usually when BB raises, I'm drawing very slim.

Another player recommended I check the turn, then when everyone else simply calls BB's bet, I should raise for value.

I'm glad this hand generated so many different opinions, since I felt very confused throughout the whole hand. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif