Flush + open ended straight draw on flop

[avisco01]

Did I play this incorrectly? Would anyone have played this differently? Table was toward the tight side, no particular reads on opponents:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

[hobbsmann]

Cap that chit on the turn and look to put in 1-2 bets on the river. On the flop 3-betting is also an option although it would be better with a loose passive read on the blinds.

[damaniac]

I'd three-bet the flop. You only lose button a small portion of the time when he'd call for two but fold for three, and besides doing so occassionally buys you a free card, if desired, and may occassionally permit you to win when you hit a Q or J but miss your draws. Same thing for a 3-bet folding out the bettor, as will happen on occassion. But mostly just for equity's sake.

Rest looks fine, once the flush gets there and the board pairs, BB has no fear. Maybe another bet should go in, in which case I favor capping the turn and calling a river bet or betting yourself, instead of raising the river since you open yourself to a three bet and get another bet out of trips tens no /images/graemlins/club.gif that might fold the river if a 4th club hits. Small concern though.

[avisco01]

Would folding the flop ever be correct in this situation? I do have to call two bets, but I have just too many outs right?

[Abbaddabba]

What the [censored]?

[hobbsmann]

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Would folding the flop ever be correct in this situation?

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no. Even if bb flips over 99 you still should call.

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I do have to call two bets, but I have just too many outs right?

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yes.


It sounds like you lost to T9 or some other full house, but don't worry you played the hand fine. If anything not enough bets went in.

id fold to a 3 bet on the turn. you are facing a serious full house which you are drawing dead to. why do you think he raised the flop&gt;?

[hobbsmann]

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id fold to a 3 bet on the turn.

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folding sucks. you are going to be 3-bet on the turn a ton by lone Ts to make folding correct.

[shant]

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id fold to a 3 bet on the turn.

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folding sucks. you are going to be 3-bet on the turn a ton by lone Ts to make folding correct.

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Hobbs, he's a donkey, get it?

[hobbsmann]

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id fold to a 3 bet on the turn.

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folding sucks. you are going to be 3-bet on the turn a ton by lone Ts to make folding correct.

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Hobbs, he's a donkey, get it?

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ahhhhhhh..... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[meep_42]

3-bet the flop for a free card + fold equity + cleaning up overcard outs.

Cap the turn and call the river if he leads. Value bet if he checks. Kick a cat if he check-raises.

-d

[WillMagic]

Three-bet the flop...so many good things can happen. You have tons of value, you can clear up your overcard outs, you could potentially take a free card....yum.

Turn is tough. I probably play it the same way, though it might be better to cap.

Will

[ackid]

Im 3-beting flop and capping turn.

[QTip]

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3-bet the flop for a free card + fold equity + cleaning up overcard outs.

Cap the turn and call the river if he leads. Value bet if he checks. Kick a cat if he check-raises.

-d

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Can't possibly say it better.

[QTip]

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id fold to a 3 bet on the turn. you are facing a serious full house which you are drawing dead to. why do you think he raised the flop&gt;?

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Did the K /images/graemlins/club.gif and 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif get exposed?

Folding is horrible.

Spend more time learning in this forum.

[goofball]

3bet the flop! Don't fold anywhere. I think I'd cap the turn and just call if he bet into me on the river.

[Nick C]

I'd probably cap the turn, but you're kind of hoping BB now has trip 10's and is playing his own hand or thinks you cold-called with A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif or something on the flop and are now semibluff-raising with it or thinks you now also have trips but with a worse kicker. (I guess I'm saying a cap doesn't show much respect for BB. But that doesn't make it wrong.)

On the flop, I like a 3-bet.

I'd 3bet the flop.

But I don't mind not capping the turn.

Any muppet can see there's a flush on the board. If he's betting a T he's still got heaps of out to snap you. He may have A/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif. If he's got the full house already, you're drawing to 2 outs.


Whatever the case, if you cap the turn (and are ahead), the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM you're making out of it is ~.3BB and some of the time- a lot less, and the rest of the time- you're behind.

So not capping the turn is never going to be a big mistake.
Depending on player, it might not be a mistake at all.

[avisco01]

Call it dumb luck, I get into these situations a lot, as I'm sure most of you do as well. Needless to say, I did lose to a full house, T6 for what its worth... I just hate getting into these "surface" profitable situations and being outdone by a ridiculous holding. I knew he had a T, and believe it or not, call it what you will, I pretty much knew I was drawing to my straight flush outs ONLY to the river (just had a feeling he had the boat, can't explain it). I contemplated 3-betting the flop for all the reasons already mentioned, but I decided not to as I already had to call two cold. I guess that doesn't matter, and 3-betting is standard here. One other question, I called with this hand UTG, which I figured was fine, do any of you fold this hand from early position, especially UTG?

[QTip]

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One other question, I called with this hand UTG, which I figured was fine, do any of you fold this hand from early position, especially UTG?

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You have to shoot me to get me to fold that hand PF. I've just started raising this hand EP in tighter games. I don't have much of a sample for results yet. I will in a couple months.

[tpir90036]

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id fold to a 3 bet on the turn. you are facing a serious full house which you are drawing dead to. why do you think he raised the flop&gt;?

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This is a gimmick account, right? Because folding on the turn eats.

[tpir90036]

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Would folding the flop ever be correct in this situation?

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!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Only if all of your opponents showed you their cards and you were somehow drawing stone dead.

But no, your equity is way too high even if you are behing to a set.... and you probably aren't folding the turn either.

[avisco01]

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One other question, I called with this hand UTG, which I figured was fine, do any of you fold this hand from early position, especially UTG?

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You have to shoot me to get me to fold that hand PF. I've just started raising this hand EP in tighter games. I don't have much of a sample for results yet. I will in a couple months.

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Well, I hope you never fold this hand UTG as it will mean you're probably dead, and at best shot and badly wounded... Incidentally, is it fair to say that my main "mistake" was not 3-betting the flop?