Weak Flush

[naphand]

Villain here is sLAGish at V$IP40/PFR20 and is capable of running a bluff, though not that often it seems. I have been consistently showing down good hands, though he must know I am FOS at times.


$5/$10 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Naphand is BB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Naphand checks.

Flop: (2.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Naphand bets</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (2.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Naphand bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, /images/graemlins/confused.gif


The lack of a raise PF means villain is unlikely to have an A or other big card of the soot. WTF does a 40/20 limp in with 4-way?

What is your plan - and how do you react to a cap?

[krishanleong]

3-bet the turn

Krishan

[naphand]

It is a 2-part question. The second part is much more important as things do not end with the 3-bet...

You are infected with the 1-line simpleton virus, best get a check-up. Penicillin no good.

First 3-bet. If he caps. I am not sure if I am bet calling or check calling the river. Should a heart fall on the river I am not strong enough to bet fold so I check call.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a 2-part question. The second part is much more important as things do not end with the 3-bet...

You are infected with the 1-line simpleton virus, best get a check-up. Penicillin no good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, sorry, I kick him in the nuts when he caps. then I bet/call the river.

Krishan

[spydog]

3-bet the turn. If he caps then check-call any heart river or any card that pairs the board. I'd be tempted to bet any other river becuase I think he checks behind with Ah+pair, but check-calling is OK.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a 2-part question. The second part is much more important as things do not end with the 3-bet...

[/ QUOTE ]

I like moltipart questions as much as the next person but there is really only one question here.

Krishan

[jph0424]

3 bet. If he caps I like a bet/call on a non heart non board pairing river. Check call if the river is a heart or if board pairs. I think he could have 2 pair, QT, T8, or just a lone heart and be trying to push you out. Get some more money in there.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is a 2-part question. The second part is much more important as things do not end with the 3-bet...

You are infected with the 1-line simpleton virus, best get a check-up. Penicillin no good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, sorry, I kick him in the nuts when he caps. then I bet/call the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

i can think of very few scenarios (really only if you feel like he is capping for a free showdown--rare) where bet-call is correct on the river after your opponent capped the turn

[sthief09]

3-bet and check-raise a non-heart or check-call a heart river if he caps

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is a 2-part question. The second part is much more important as things do not end with the 3-bet...

You are infected with the 1-line simpleton virus, best get a check-up. Penicillin no good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, sorry, I kick him in the nuts when he caps. then I bet/call the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

i can think of very few scenarios (really only if you feel like he is capping for a free showdown--rare) where bet-call is correct on the river after your opponent capped the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a straight, Ah + flush draw, two pair will occasionally check behind but call. I think a straight might raise a river bet(So we get 2 anyway).

Ahh I reread your post. You want to go for a river cr if he caps. Yeah I'm fine with that. I think sometime we lose value from hands that check behind. But I may have been influenced by Naphand's posting tells which make me think he loses this hand.

Krishan

[naphand]

Yes but your first response did not answer it! Which question were you thinking of... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Skim reading...tsk tsk

[ QUOTE ]
But I may have been influenced by Naphand's posting tells which make me think he loses this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh?

What is about my read that suggests I lost the hand? Or is it the fact I posted a read at all that makes you believe this. You know what I think about non-read stat-only posts... /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Cackle...hoooowl.

[krishanleong]

You posted the angry icon in your title. And instead of presenting us with the real question you gave us a softie which everyone knows the answer to and asked the real question seperately. Makes me think you lost.

Krishan

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF does a 40/20 limp in with 4-way?

[/ QUOTE ]
J9, T8, K7, J7, QT?

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet and check-raise a non-heart or check-call a heart river if he caps

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that thought best. I think the most important thing out of this entire thread, however, is to 3bet the turn.

[naphand]

I think the Turn 3-bet is pretty obvious, which is why I asked about what happens if it gets capped...

I wanted people to think ahead with a plan, rather than just post for one street. Usually makes for more intresting discussion, though Krishan clearly tried to spoil the party... /images/graemlins/mad.gif

This line (CR non-heart and chk-call a 4th heart) is my favoured one too.

Thanks for input people.

ACTUAL RESULT:
I 3-bet the Turn, Villain caps.
River is a 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif
I check, villain checks behind and shows T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif
MHING

So the check-call-4th-soot line also has some value by getting a free SD against another feeble-flush.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]

So the check-call-4th-soot line also has some value by getting a free SD against another feeble-flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

if by feeble you mean the 3rd nuts

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet and check-raise a non-heart or check-call a heart river if he caps

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r a non-heart and fold to a 3bet?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet and check-raise a non-heart or check-call a heart river if he caps

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r a non-heart and fold to a 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]


putting in a lot of bets with the 4th nuts and then folding for one more bet is not usually the best way to beat a lot

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet and check-raise a non-heart or check-call a heart river if he caps

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r a non-heart and fold to a 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]


putting in a lot of bets with the 4th nuts and then folding for one more bet is not usually the best way to beat a lot

[/ QUOTE ]

Like with J9s? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
But seriously, I think when you have to pay 3bets for a SD here vs. a higher flush, isn't it better to just bet/call which also makes sure he doesn't check behind a set or 2pair.

[wheelz]

he only put in one bet with the "4th" nuts in the J9s hand /images/graemlins/tongue.gif



<font color="white">theoretically</font>

[wowacedude]

[ QUOTE ]

But seriously, I think when you have to pay 3bets for a SD here vs. a higher flush, isn't it better to just bet/call which also makes sure he doesn't check behind a set or 2pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what was thinking too.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet and check-raise a non-heart or check-call a heart river if he caps

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r a non-heart and fold to a 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]


putting in a lot of bets with the 4th nuts and then folding for one more bet is not usually the best way to beat a lot

[/ QUOTE ]

Like with J9s? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
But seriously, I think when you have to pay 3bets for a SD here vs. a higher flush, isn't it better to just bet/call which also makes sure he doesn't check behind a set or 2pair.

[/ QUOTE ]


bet/call = 2 bets when behind, 1 when ahead
check/raise/call = 3 bets when behind, 2 bets when ahead

which is better?

i wouldnt expect him to cap the turn and check through the river


btw that shouldve read "is not the best way to beat a lag"

[naphand]

only in this case.