A 6max hand at 2/4.

[adsman]

Haven't posted a hand in a while. Absolute 2/4 6max, home of the true donkey donks.

Complete and utter maniac open raises UTG. This means that he is holding two cards. Folded to me on the button where I duely 3-bet holding the massive ATo. The sb folds and the calling station BB cold calls the 3-bet as does our maniac friend. His not capping means that he probably doesn't have a hand in the top 50% range.

Flop comes 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to me, so I of course bet. Call, call.

The turn comes off with a lovely Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Check, check, and I check.

The River is the T /images/graemlins/heart.gif giving me a pair. Oh goodie. The BB checks, maniac bets, I call and the calling station overcalls, since that is what calling stations do.

Like it, or hate it? Why?

The river is a decision between call and raise. Given your opponent is a calling station and thus will not fold a jack or a queen to two bets on the river this is a call, but if your opponent (not the maniac) was a thinking tag, this is a great spot for a river raise to fold a better hand.

Regardless... played perfectly.

[Vote4Pedro]

PF: Solid
Flop: Yea
Turn: Great
River: At first it seemed like one of those situations where you dont want overcalls, so I was thinking raise and hope the BB folds a J or something. But considering his station-status, hes not folding anything you beat and I'm gonna wanna showdown any reasonable pair against a maniac so I like it...

[jrz1972]

I agree with all streets.

Preflop and flop are obviously standard.

The turn is interesting. Remove the maniac leaving just the calling station, and I'm betting this. Remove the calling station and I think this is an easy check-behind as a bluff-inducer. The fact that you have two opponents and may very well still hold the best hand makes it interesting, but the risk of the maniac pushing you off the best hand if you bet is too great here, so I'm fine with the check.

It's tempting to stick a raise in on the river, but that play never seems to work for me when I try it. Obviously I hate the three royal flush cards on the board, but I think you need to try to get this to showdown against the maniac after you showed weakness on the turn, so calling seems fine.

Interesting hand on the last two streets. I'd feel much more confident in this line if the calling station were not involved. I can't begin to count the number of times I've had a maniac beaten only to lose to some [censored] limper who didn't notice that I 3-bet preflop.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
PF: Solid
Flop: Yea
Turn: Great
River: At first it seemed like one of those situations where you dont want overcalls, so I was thinking raise and hope the BB folds a J or something. But considering his station-status, hes not folding anything you beat and I'm gonna wanna showdown any reasonable pair against a maniac so I like it...

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of raising the river if I didn't hit.

[LoaferGee12]

Like it, other posters said why.

[Vote4Pedro]

Interesting...on a more ragged board I might like it, but I think there are too many cards that are "In The Zone" for this to be successful

[deception5]

I think you played it well, but I would not bluff raise the river if you miss.

[istewart]

I like it.

[aargh57]

I'm almost thinking that I don't like it. I would rather have raised the river to try to push out the SB. While he may still call with a J or Q facing 2 bets would at least give you the chance of pushing him out especially if he can recognize that there are 3 to a straight and flush on board. I think that the pot is big enough that you have to call maniac's bet but I think this is a case where investing an extra bet can save you the pot.

[car ramrod]

I think I would raise the river, I don't want the over call by the calling station, he could easily have a J or Q, and he may fold them facing 2 cold.

I like the other streets.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want the over call by the calling station, he could easily have a J or Q, and he may fold them facing 2 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf?

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want the over call by the calling station, he could easily have a J or Q, and he may fold them facing 2 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this istewart. What's the confusion? I guess you're saying that calling station will never fold the J or Q for 2 bets on this board. I think it's worth a shot but I could be wrong. He's probably not folding a Q but a J I think is possible.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want the over call by the calling station, he could easily have a J or Q, and he may fold them facing 2 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this istewart. What's the confusion? I guess you're saying that calling station will never fold the J or Q for 2 bets on this board. I think it's worth a shot but I could be wrong. He's probably not folding a Q but a J I think is possible.

[/ QUOTE ]
does the maniac really bet less than a pair of tens here into two players often enough to make raising to maybe push out a better pair worth it? i don't think it is

i think this river is close between a call and fold, partly because i don't trust the "complete and utter maniac" read based on how the guy played this hand.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want the over call by the calling station, he could easily have a J or Q, and he may fold them facing 2 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this istewart. What's the confusion? I guess you're saying that calling station will never fold the J or Q for 2 bets on this board. I think it's worth a shot but I could be wrong. He's probably not folding a Q but a J I think is possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Insanely doubtful. People don't cool-call three bets preflop to fold top/mid pair here on the river for two.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
i think this river is close between a call and fold, partly because i don't trust the "complete and utter maniac" read based on how the guy played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villians stats were 71/52/2.5

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
does the maniac really bet less than a pair of tens here into two players often enough to make raising to maybe push out a better pair worth it? i don't think it is

i think this river is close between a call and fold, partly because i don't trust the "complete and utter maniac" read based on how the guy played this hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

He said the guys is an utter maniac, who only called the flop and checked the turn, I think he is betting that river like everytime once the turn gets checked thru.

Still not sure if the calling station would fold enough to make the raise but I think it's our best play. I would like to know his numbers on the river.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think this river is close between a call and fold, partly because i don't trust the "complete and utter maniac" read based on how the guy played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Villians stats were 71/52/2.5

[/ QUOTE ]

i bet his aggression is super high on the flop, and it then just tapers off. i played against an 80/80/8 guy for ~150 hands who was pretty normal on the river. he would check call his weaker hands, and bet his better hands. of course he would also open fold many hands that he had capped on the flop.

those numbers don't tell me that we are extremely likely to be ahead on this board when he bets into two on the river. it's definitely a close decision with another player to act.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think this river is close between a call and fold, partly because i don't trust the "complete and utter maniac" read based on how the guy played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Villians stats were 71/52/2.5

[/ QUOTE ]

i bet his aggression is super high on the flop, and it then just tapers off. i played against an 80/80/8 guy for ~150 hands who was pretty normal on the river. he would check call his weaker hands, and bet his better hands. of course he would also open fold many hands that he had capped on the flop.

those numbers don't tell me that we are extremely likely to be ahead on this board when he bets into two on the river. it's definitely a close decision with another player to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop aggression: 3.43
Turn aggression 1.47
River aggression: 2.60

Went to showdown is a massive 63% and he has never folded to a river bet.

[milesdyson]

that tells me calling is better than folding.

i'm still definitely not raising.