View Full Version : old hand...when to keep the third barrel in the gun
technologic
11-22-2005, 04:55 AM
hand from a while back
wynn 2/5 NL effective stacks 1k
folded to hero on the button, picks up 45d
hero opens for 25, while remarking, "a position raise".
villain in bb, loose pf solid post flop, calls.
flop AQJr. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
turn blank. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
river A. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
whoops? should i have given up at some point?
captZEEbo1
11-22-2005, 04:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
hand from a while back
wynn 2/5 NL effective stacks 1k
folded to hero on the button, picks up 45d
hero opens for 25, while remarking, "a position raise".
villain in bb, loose pf solid post flop, calls.
flop AQJr. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
turn blank. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
river A. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
whoops? should i have given up at some point?
[/ QUOTE ]I probably check turn and take free card without a read
Garland
11-22-2005, 05:00 AM
I would have given up preflop. If I decided not to give up then, I would have given up after potting the flop. If I decided not to give up by then, I would have given up after potting the turn. After he calls the turn, and I see the river A, I muck my cards before he even has a chance to act.
Garland
Big_Jim
11-22-2005, 05:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
should i have given up at some point?
[/ QUOTE ]
The second you felt like stopping the spewage.
What kind of hands does BB flat call a raise with?
Yeah.. exactly. Give up after the flop.
CamelZoo
11-22-2005, 05:08 AM
let's look at the positives - at least you get to show on the river and get called down for the rest of the night : )
creedofhubris
11-22-2005, 07:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand from a while back
wynn 2/5 NL effective stacks 1k
folded to hero on the button, picks up 45d
hero opens for 25, while remarking, "a position raise".
villain in bb, loose pf solid post flop, calls.
flop AQJr. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
turn blank. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
river A. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
whoops? should i have given up at some point?
[/ QUOTE ]I probably check turn and take free card without a read
[/ QUOTE ]
check turn, sure. Free card? How can that help?
flawless_victory
11-22-2005, 07:47 AM
that river bet is pretty horrible.
jaydub
11-22-2005, 11:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand from a while back
wynn 2/5 NL effective stacks 1k
folded to hero on the button, picks up 45d
hero opens for 25, while remarking, "a position raise".
villain in bb, loose pf solid post flop, calls.
flop AQJr. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
turn blank. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
river A. villain checks, hero pots, villain calls.
whoops? should i have given up at some point?
[/ QUOTE ]I probably check turn and take free card without a read
[/ QUOTE ]
check turn, sure. Free card? How can that help?
[/ QUOTE ]
He loses less money, openfolding turn is also an option. This game plays far more like SSNL than an online 1000NL.
JooWish622
11-22-2005, 12:17 PM
the biggest problem with that river bet is that his turn call has already told you that he thinks his hand is good (likely a king or better) and that river card only m akes it easier for him to call you down.
Definately, definately, give up after that second barrel, not that i would have fired a second one anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
whoops? should i have given up at some point?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah... preflop... why does everyone have to be such a god damn hero and raise on the button.
1) Has our play become so bad that we don't know when the next time is that we will be able to pick up 8 whole dollars?
2) Does the dealer actually look at the blinds starting hands to be sure they never get anything descent?
come on... give a guy a march.
P.S. How much money did you blow trying to pick-up $8... I guarentee you will have to play 30 sessions, stealing every single blind to make up for 3 pot size bets on that scary ass board.
i hope this post was joke!!
ahnuld
11-22-2005, 06:16 PM
I give up river, but I can seem you thinking he may have had something like KQ and wanted to take one off. I think betting 1/2 pot on river has almost as much fold equity as full pot, so if you insist on 3 barrel, 1/2 is better. Just MO
Position is good; it makes hand-quality less relavant.
He blew his money trying to win $7, then $52, then $156, then $468. Sure it's bad, but it's hardly 'trying to win $8'.
[ QUOTE ]
i hope this post was joke!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know about openfolding 54s on the button in a 200 BB game. That sounds pretty bad to me. I'm not a big fan of openlimping the button either.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i hope this post was joke!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know about openfolding 54s on the button in a 200 BB game. That sounds pretty bad to me. I'm not a big fan of openlimping the button either.
[/ QUOTE ]
This talk of folding preflop is crazy, methinks.
technologic
11-23-2005, 05:03 AM
heh, a friend of mine suggested that i should have left out the villains action at the end because he may have thought this would've skewed the responses a bit.
anyway, i guess i should've added that i had a tight image, showing down sets, flushes, etc.
what hands did i put villain on? on the flop i thought he might have a weak ace or a pair plus gutshot. on the turn, my suspicion that he had a ace weak kicker was somewhat confirmed. on the river is when i really had to think about first what villain had, and then what villain thought i had.
villain probably had ace weak kicker, imo. given that he's just calling the whole way, i'd think he definitely didn't have a house, and was playing the Q and J as kickers.
the hands that he could beat him were only AK/AQ/AJ/QQ/JJ/KT. i thought back on how i played it, raised pf, bet flop, bet turn. i thought i had represented a pretty strong hand the whole way through and that he was not necessarily committed to calling a bet on the river by calling the turn. the possible holdings that i could have i'd definitely play the same way, and the line that i took would have to be a monster or complete air. i obviously would check behind with a weak ace as there'd be very little in my mind of betting in that spot.
in my mind, i put pressure on the villain to make a tough decision where he may not be good more than 1/3 of the time to make the call correct.
in the actual hand, villain showed KK, and explained that he put me on QJ. i don't see how he could put me on QJ specifically enough to know that was where my strength was coming from on the previous two streets. but i got to show down my 45d and have the whole table salivate from my presence.
i guess a question of mine would be, when is an appropriate time to fire the third barrel, given that the opponent has "shown" that he's willing to call you down?
Imperial
11-23-2005, 07:05 AM
Preflop is fine. I raise that hand from the button most of the time. Flop bet is fine also. If your going to continue on the turn without any outs you need a very good read. Most of the time just give up on the turn.
jaydub
11-23-2005, 10:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
anyway, i guess i should've added that i had a tight image, showing down sets, flushes, etc.
in the actual hand, villain showed KK, and explained that he put me on QJ. i don't see how he could put me on QJ specifically enough to know that was where my strength was coming from on the previous two streets. but i got to show down my 45d and have the whole table salivate from my presence.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your image meant [censored] all. He had a hand he wanted to play and so he played it. QJ was the hand that he wanted to believe you had and the lack of a rational reasoning for that hand also meant [censored] all.
Too bad you had to drop so much of your stack on an image building exercise.
You should repost this in SSNL for a better answer to your question about how often to three barrel bluff in such games.
Hopefully you were able to rebuy and value bet the hell out of him on later hands.
Big_Jim
11-23-2005, 05:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah... preflop... why does everyone have to be such a god damn hero and raise on the button.
1) Has our play become so bad that we don't know when the next time is that we will be able to pick up 8 whole dollars?
2) Does the dealer actually look at the blinds starting hands to be sure they never get anything descent?
come on... give a guy a march.
P.S. How much money did you blow trying to pick-up $8... I guarentee you will have to play 30 sessions, stealing every single blind to make up for 3 pot size bets on that scary ass board.
i hope this post was joke!!
[/ QUOTE ]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~raza/wtf.jpg
yvesaint
11-23-2005, 05:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah... preflop... why does everyone have to be such a god damn hero and raise on the button.
1) Has our play become so bad that we don't know when the next time is that we will be able to pick up 8 whole dollars?
2) Does the dealer actually look at the blinds starting hands to be sure they never get anything descent?
come on... give a guy a march.
P.S. How much money did you blow trying to pick-up $8... I guarentee you will have to play 30 sessions, stealing every single blind to make up for 3 pot size bets on that scary ass board.
i hope this post was joke!!
[/ QUOTE ]
lol i hope this post was a joke too
pre-flop is fine
river is spewage
turn is less spewage
technologic
11-23-2005, 07:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whoops? should i have given up at some point?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah... preflop... why does everyone have to be such a god damn hero and raise on the button.
1) Has our play become so bad that we don't know when the next time is that we will be able to pick up 8 whole dollars?
2) Does the dealer actually look at the blinds starting hands to be sure they never get anything descent?
come on... give a guy a march.
P.S. How much money did you blow trying to pick-up $8... I guarentee you will have to play 30 sessions, stealing every single blind to make up for 3 pot size bets on that scary ass board.
i hope this post was joke!!
[/ QUOTE ]
yea...what everyone else said about your toolish remark.
my play was questionable, though raising preflop is not the reason why.
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