Uncomfortable AA

Nothing about this hand seemed right. It is the first time I've played AA four handed in a long time, so that made me a little uncomfortable to begin with. Secondly the flop was scary. Of course the range of hands I put at least one of the three people is KK, QQ, and JJ. If any one of them had KK or QQ, I'm in deep trouble. Same goes for someone playing KQs. I had a feeling that I was behind after the flop because of BB calling the reraise, but due to the size of the pot I felt that I couldn't fold. Comments on all streets is appreciated.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

[shant]

Do you have reads on the 3-better and the capper? I'd bet that river.

If he really did have KQ, KK, or QQ why wouldn't he 3 bet you on the flop? The only logical (admittedly sometimes people defy logic) reason would be to checkraise you on the turn. Instead he donk bet it, so I'd raise it up and see what he does. If he three bets you then slow down. He may simply have AK maybe AK /images/graemlins/spade.gif or even JJ.

*grunch*

I think I would play it the same way. Without a read I assume BB has a reasonable capping range and you only beat AK (AA, KK, QQ, AK, maybe JJ and KQs).
The raise on the flop is still good, though. I don't think you want QT+, KT+ (with a backdoorflushdraw maybe), Gutshots and things like that sticking around here. So you want to protect. The pot is so large though, that they are still getting about 9:1. But I don't think this is a case where you should wait for the turn to raise. I don't think your edge will increase so much on the turn.
If BB has a set of Ks or Qs he could be trying to SnG hoping you will raise again. So I only call that bet.
The check on the river looks odd though. He's either trying to induce a bluff or he has A high. Given his preflop cap, I think he's trying to induce a bluff when the third to the straight and high-card hits. I could easily imagine BB having AA too (thinking you could have AK) and being afraid you hit a set on the river.
I think there is no more you can do.

maybe it's because just yesterday someone tried to induce a bluff on the river on a 3flush-board against me, but I think this smells like a trap. there are simply not enough hands that you beat at this point that villain is likely to have. You beat AK and you split with AA. Without a read, I don't think you can go much further than JJ and KQs when considering his capping-range.

[shant]

It feels a lot more like AK or AQ to me, and I wouldn't feel too bad about folding to a checkraise on this board. That's why I asked the OP for reads, because it makes a huge difference. Depending on the player, the raise on the flop might not even be a good idea.

grunch....

i 3bet the turn before slowing down

with 2pair or a set he caps the flop

I'd strongly consider waiting for the turn to raise.

[POKhER]

Initial reaction:
Raise the turn or bet the river, i think i'd bet the river.

However, after re-reading the hand he may be on QQ and will simply call you... Unfortunatly no read so as he could be on AK value bet it.

[@bsolute_luck]

i guess the question is would he cap with AK? some people don't. or is he a nut and capping with KQ? i actually like how it was played.

Dont feel uncomfortable with AA because you get a lot of action. You played it right.

Grunch:

I like your pf and flop play. Also, I cannot see another good turn/riv strategy due to the pot size. That said, I cannot think of 1 hand you beat in this situation . . .

EDIT - I gotta quit posting before my coffee /images/graemlins/blush.gif I can easily see AK playing you this way.

I'd raise the turn, if he just called, then I'd bet the flop. Villian has done nothing to make me think I'm behind. He capped preflop but didn't 3-bet the flop. The donk bet on the turn is a little concerning but I still want to raise there.

[BoogerFace]

*grunch*

I think you played it fine with the exception of not bet/folding the river. I doubt villan would reraise A T preflop.

[CourtJester]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing about this hand seemed right. It is the first time I've played AA four handed in a long time, so that made me a little uncomfortable to begin with. Secondly the flop was scary. Of course the range of hands I put at least one of the three people is KK, QQ, and JJ. If any one of them had KK or QQ, I'm in deep trouble. Same goes for someone playing KQs. I had a feeling that I was behind after the flop because of BB calling the reraise, but due to the size of the pot I felt that I couldn't fold. Comments on all streets is appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

That highlighted part is called MUBS, do not be scared of a hand unless someone really proves it to you, if he capped the flop, or if you raised the turn (which you were supposed to do) and then got 3 bet, then maybe you could be scared of a set or two pair, but unless someone shows you some more aggression than a stop n go, dont be scared, it comes from being results oreinted, the right move is correct even if you lose your whole stack, they're ACES dude, raise em up. You should be raising that turn, and if he 3bets maybe slow down there. and for sure w/o even feeling bad, call a river bet

[MrWookie47]

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I'd strongly consider waiting for the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You can knock out gutshots now, and there aren't very many scare cards to come.

[kiemo]

I see villian with QQ, but I am always looking for the worst possible outcome as of late and I am trying real hard to justify to myself why I think QQ is his hand.

He is scared of you and MP1 having KK so instead of going for the checkraise on the flop he leads out. Your raise scares him a bit, but his call doesnt make sense given his turn action as both other players have already folded.

Stop and go turn is baffling and is usually an indication of a poor player with a good hand. He called on the flop to try and get an extra bet from you on the turn, but wasnt sophisticated enough to go for the check raise.

Since you only called and didnt raise the river is another baffle. The J shouldnt scare him if he has QQ, so only possible reason I can think for his check was to induce you to bet, but he didnt check raise the flop or turn so ummm.

In short, I got no clue whats going on. A turn raise would help narrow his hands down a bit more and make the river play a bit easier.

[ QUOTE ]
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I'd strongly consider waiting for the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You can knock out gutshots now, and there aren't very many scare cards to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see too many gutshots dropping out getting 9.75:1.
This is a lot like the KK vs J7 hand in SSHE.

[WalkAmongUs]

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[ QUOTE ]
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I'd strongly consider waiting for the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You can knock out gutshots now, and there aren't very many scare cards to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see too many gutshots dropping out getting 9.75:1.
This is a lot like the KK vs J7 hand in SSHE.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point Kwazzie. I'd have to agree. I'd wait to raise the turn. If I got reraised on the turn I would think I could probably fold. If just called on the turn I'd bet the river.

[TomBrooks]

I'd raise the turn.

I'd take a chance and bet the river. Even though ever pocket pair he might have just made a set, he checked to you. I therefore put him on AK. If it got checkraised, I'd figure to probably be beat, but I'd figure it worth a call.

[shant]

You guys that are raising the turn, are you folding to a 3-bet? When you get 3-bet are you going to reason to yourself that he could have AK and you should call down?

A read here is very important which is why I was asking the OP for it.

[GTSamIAm]

I'd raise that flop 100% of the time. You have AA, your flop equity is huge. Do you remember the section from SSH called "Two Overpair Hands"? That's basically what I'm quotoing.

Unfortunately I don't have any real reads on anybody at the table. It was my first orbit, and I have no PT stats on anybody involved in the hand. Since I had only played 6 or 7 hands, I hadn't been able to see much, but nobody at the table had been out of line so far. In fact, I don't believe that there was a single preflop raise since I had sat down.

:grunch: I like the flop bet; it folded out two players.

BB's turn bet looks like a donk bet, but I would have raised the turn. If reraised, I would fold. If called, I would check the river through or fold UI.

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys that are raising the turn, are you folding to a 3-bet? When you get 3-bet are you going to reason to yourself that he could have AK and you should call down?


[/ QUOTE ]

The action in this scenario is PF cap, Bet/Call on the flop, Bet/Raise/3-Bet?

I can't fold to a 3-bet here. Feels like maniacal blind defense. Maybe he outflopped you with his inferior hand; maybe he realizes you're not going to fold to him checking...

Reasonable Beats:
12 ways for a set (more if you count bottom set, but that doesn't really seem viable)
4 ways for KQs

Chops:
1 way for AA

Reasonable Losing Hands:
6 ways for AK
6 ways for AQ

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Obviously, there are looser pre-flop hands on both sides. Thing is, when the turn comes and he donks you, you may have the lead. Evin if you're behind, you've got 2 outs to your set to win and you've 6 additional outs to counterfeit a flopped two-pair. I've got way too much equity to fold this pot.

If I get 3-bet on the turn, I'm calling a river bet. If I get called on the turn, I'm betting this river. I can't see any way I can bet the river after a turn river because I don't want to fold to a raise. Can you specifically put villain on a A/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/spade.gif turn semi-bluff?

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This is the Pokerstove I ran (my ranges for P3 &amp; P4 are arbitrary)

PRE-FLOP:
Hand 1: 12.3492 % [ 00.12 00.00 ] { AA-QQ, AKs-AQs, KQs, AKo-AQo, KQo }
Hand 2: 56.3875 % [ 00.56 00.00 ] { AA }
Hand 3: 16.9490 % [ 00.17 00.00 ] { JJ-TT }
Hand 4: 14.3144 % [ 00.14 00.00 ] { JJ-66, 44-22, ATs-A2s, K9s-K6s, K4s-K2s, QJs, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s }

FLOP:
Hand 1: 43.9218 % [ 00.42 00.01 ] { AA-QQ, AKs-AQs, KQs, AKo-AQo, KQo }
Hand 2: 40.2611 % [ 00.39 00.02 ] { AA }
Hand 3: 08.2804 % [ 00.08 00.00 ] { JJ-TT }
Hand 4: 07.5367 % [ 00.07 00.00 ] { JJ-66, 44-22, ATs-A2s, K9s-K6s, K4s-K2s, QJs, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s }

TURN:
Hand 1: 50.8523 % [ 00.49 00.02 ] { AA-QQ, AKs-AQs, KQs, AKo-AQo, KQo }
Hand 2: 49.1477 % [ 00.47 00.02 ] { AA }

RIVER:
Hand 1: 55.3571 % [ 00.54 00.02 ] { AA-QQ, AKs-AQs, KQs, AKo-AQo, KQo }
Hand 2: 44.6429 % [ 00.43 00.02 ] { AA }

[ QUOTE ]

*grunch*

I think you played it fine with the exception of not bet/folding the river. I doubt villan would reraise A T preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take the free SD and make notes.

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I'd raise that flop 100% of the time. You have AA, your flop equity is huge. Do you remember the section from SSH called "Two Overpair Hands"? That's basically what I'm quotoing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That Overpair Hand implies that Hero has no reasonable chance to protect his hand and therefore should take the next best thing and raise for value.

What you really want to be reading is Page 163,164.

Bottom line: wait for the turn to raise.

[WalkAmongUs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise that flop 100% of the time. You have AA, your flop equity is huge. Do you remember the section from SSH called "Two Overpair Hands"? That's basically what I'm quotoing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That Overpair Hand implies that Hero has no reasonable chance to protect his hand and therefore should take the next best thing and raise for value.

What you really want to be reading is Page 163,164.

Bottom line: wait for the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also like to add that this particular flop will hit a LOT of hands and that means that a lot of your opponents could have 5 or more outs against you.

While you do have a decent flop equity advantage I wouldn't consider it to be HUGE. With the pot this big, they would all be correct to call one bet AS WELL AS 2 bets. this is bad according to the fundamental poker theorum. Your opponents are playing correctly against you.

The only thing you can do to help your hand is to wait till the turn to raise. Then you make it incorrect for your opponents to draw to their hands with 4 or 5 outs. Thus, if they call, you profit and if they fold, you bought the pot even if one of their outs comes on the river.