The Morality of Killing Iraqis

[Andrew Fletcher]

A friend of mine recently told me that one of our classmates has peculiar hobby. He downloads videos of U.S. soldiers killing Iraqis and watches them for fun. Apparently there are several websites that offer such videos, allegedly filmed by soldiers themselves and uploaded to an independent website.

I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the films. For all I know, they are nothing more than home movies with low-budget special effects sold to stupid college kids. Still, the fact that this guy downloads this stuff for enjoyment is really scary.

This guy is the type of person who would be outraged by Iraqi college students watching movies of American soldiers being killed. He clearly has some kind of mental block that allows to him to apply different standards to Iraqis than to people who happen to have been born in the United States.

I guess my question is: what is to stop this logic from allowing people to accept the mass murder of people who live in the United States? Couldn’t someone simply “other” an ethnic group (like Jews, for example) and kill them for entertainment?

There is something very scary about certain streams of philosophy and standards that run through U.S. culture.

[RJT]

Slow down. You seem to be saying that there are some footages of U.S. soldiers in Iraq who killed what they think or in fact are (I am presuming) I guess I can use the word the “enemy”. And that some folk here are watching these footages, like some watch porn. Is this what you are saying to begin with?

If that is what you are saying, I don’t see how the rest of your post makes any sense. It certainly doesn’t seem to be relevant to the videos at any rate.

[theweatherman]

probably due to the systematic media blitz telling the public we are the good guys fighting evil. Dehumanizing the enemy is the greatest tool to recruit an army.

[RJT]

Icarus,

This whole thing smacks of Urban Legend. I suggest some links or ignore it. And if the links are pay sites, I suggest you have credible evidence that they are what they portend.

RJT

[BluffTHIS!]

Your buddy is still on the soft core stuff. I have seen actual army footage of soldiers on the island campaigns in WWII using a flame thrower to clear out caves of Japanese soldiers (this isn't stuff that has ever been on the history channel). What killed them wasn't necessarily the flames if they were in deep enough, but asphyxiation due to the flames comsuming all the oxygen. Then the footage showed the insides afterwards. The results weren't pretty.

But as for the morality of US soldiers killing in Iraq, if they are following the rules of engagement and thus only fighting with those fighting them, then they are merely defending their own lives. And since the insurgency is targeted not just at US military but also the lawfully and democratically elected Iraqi government, then those insurgents cannot claim to be in the moral right, because they are only engaged when they initiate such action or refuse arrest for their crimes.

[ QUOTE ]
Icarus,

This whole thing smacks of Urban Legend. I suggest some links or ignore it. And if the links are pay sites, I suggest you have credible evidence that they are what they portend.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Do a search. There are plenty of videos online.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Icarus,

This whole thing smacks of Urban Legend. I suggest some links or ignore it. And if the links are pay sites, I suggest you have credible evidence that they are what they portend.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Do a search. There are plenty of videos online.

[/ QUOTE ]

No thanks. Since this seems to be common knowledge than I'll accept that. The OP seems to be suggesting these are random killings for kicks. Is that the case, is that what he is suggesting?

RJT

[Andrew Fletcher]

How do I edit my OP? I want to clarify the point I am trying to make.

I'm not trying to criticize the soilders who are killing Iraqis. They are doing their job. The war is the responsiblity of the policymakers, not the soilders who are in combat.

I'm trying to understand this kid who enjoys watching people get killed. It's fun for him to watch people getting their brains blown out. That's very confusing to me.

[BluffTHIS!]

You can't edit a post after like 30 minutes. If that kid gets off on that, then he is prime psychopathic material.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]

I guess my question is: what is to stop this logic from allowing people to accept the mass murder of people who live in the United States? Couldn’t someone simply “other” an ethnic group (like Jews, for example) and kill them for entertainment?

There is something very scary about certain streams of philosophy and standards that run through U.S. culture.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure there's any kind of "logic" behind your friend's fixation. I would say instead that he's a sick bastard (no offense intended). I wouldn't attribute it to US culture either. There are lots of Muslim youths in France who get a kick out of setting cars on fire, which is only a step or two up from your friend.

[RJT]

bobman,

Just to clarify to you for waxie, now that he clarified his point - it is a classmate of his friend. It is not waxie's friend.

Thanks for the clarification, waxie. Don't worry about editing. We got it now.

RJT

[Andrew Fletcher]

This kid, who I'm now going to refer to as Tom, is not going to join the army. He just likes watching people die for kicks.

[Andrew Fletcher]

I assume there are a lot of people downloading and viewing this material, or there wouldn't be sites like that one. Also, people wouldn't charge for it without a big enough customer base.

[Andrew Fletcher]

To me, there is something extremely problematic about the idea that someone downloads movies of people getting killed and watches them for fun.

It's even more scary that these videos might be being viewed by large audiences for enjoyment. There are dozens of sites that offer this material for a small charge. There is a market for this stuff.

[RJT]

Waxie,

We all agree that it is wacko to enjoy this stuff. Perhaps you have never heard of (what I think have been confirmed as urban legend, thus my initial response) porn flicks where the guy ends up killing the woman. These flicks whether real themselves or real flicks but concocted killings ( think the flicks exists but are fake killings) when/if viewed are viewed by the same type of folk like Tom. What can I say. Welcome, to the real world I guess. Life is often stranger than fiction.

RJT

p.s. Welcome to the forum, too.

[Andrew Fletcher]

I've been poking around the poker forum for a while but this is my first SMP post.

I know that this stuff exists, but it's still very scary to me.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been poking around the poker forum for a while but this is my first SMP post.

I know that this stuff exists, but it's still very scary to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Icarus, (btw, I often change the actual screen name of the poster when I respond. Just for levity. I trust you get the reference?)

I thought is was your first post here (thus my welcome to you).

Well kid, I'll better advise you this: If you think that stuff is scary, wait until you read some of our posts. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

RJT

[Andrew Fletcher]

The kid is not my friend at all. Actually, I really can't stand him.

Actually, we can't write off people who do this as sick, perverted or morbid. Actually is common knowledge that websites that offer videos of alleged real murders, suicide, executions etc. get an ENORMOUS amount of hits.

So in other words we can reckon that is is actually quite common to look for stuff like this.

I agree to a point that there ofcourse severe moral issues to be asked by a person who continusly looks for material like this, but is not in any way uncommon.

Ever seen people gather around an accident site, look at a fire, watch action movies filled with murder, watch videos filled with potentially lethal car crashes, watch war clips on discovery channel showing deaths, getting your eyes glued to the news when a story that shows some morbid clip from a conflict somewhere in the world.

Death fascinates people and gathers their attention, there are several theories as to why, but many are a little on the far fetched side of things, but it should be easy to find stuff on the matter.