View Full Version : 3-handed against Metetron and a LAG
Entity
11-21-2005, 04:50 PM
LAG opens UTG. Metetron 3-bets. I cap red Kings in the BB. LAG calls, Metetron calls. My image should be good if it matters, but I'm not sure it does here.
The flop is 3/images/graemlins/club.gif4/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Metetron checks. I bet. LAG raises. Metetron calls two cold. I 3-bet. LAG calls. Metetron now caps. Everyone calls.
The turn is the 7/images/graemlins/club.gif. Metetron bets. I'm next to act.
Rob
sublime
11-21-2005, 04:53 PM
your screwed
deepsquat
11-21-2005, 04:55 PM
yeah you're gone, he is begging for you to raise him..
Lmn55d
11-21-2005, 04:59 PM
yea he either has 33, 44, 77 or a flush. When he coldcalled/capped the flop he either has a set or a flush with pair outs that he thinks could be good (but not worth 3betting LAG's raise to try to knock you out and clean up his outs). If he doesn't think his pair outs are ever good there's no real point to capping the flop with a flush draw. Actually I think he would 3bet the flop a lot with a flush draw so I think there's a decent chance he has a set and doesn't want to knock out your overs. A lot would 3bet there with a set though. hmm. I say he's got 44.
billyjex
11-21-2005, 05:03 PM
I think he probably hit his flush here. Not 3-betting a set when it first comes two cold to him on the flop seems weird for him, I think, so I think he has the flush here more often.
jason_t
11-21-2005, 05:04 PM
Get out.
stoxtrader
11-21-2005, 05:07 PM
turbo muck.
I'm going to go against the grain and say . . . muck!
Chobohoya
11-21-2005, 05:19 PM
I'll be totally different and say "fold"
Entity
11-21-2005, 05:25 PM
No one thinks that I can call with what is almost always a 4-outer getting 13:1 and fold the river UI?
Rob
B Dids
11-21-2005, 05:26 PM
He never has like QQ with the Q of club here?
Even if he does, I can't imagine he has it often enough to make this not a fold. Does he know you're you? Does this matter?
Entity
11-21-2005, 05:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
yeah you're gone, he is begging for you to raise him..
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not going to raise. I think the pot might be big enough that I could call. I dunno though.
Rob
Rubeskies
11-21-2005, 05:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yeah you're gone, he is begging for you to raise him..
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not going to raise. I think the pot might be big enough that I could call. I dunno though.
Rob
[/ QUOTE ]
You aren't closing the action.
jason_t
11-21-2005, 05:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
No one thinks that I can call with what is almost always a 4-outer getting 13:1 and fold the river UI?
Rob
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a LAG behind you. I think 4 outs on average is generous.
[ QUOTE ]
No one thinks that I can call with what is almost always a 4-outer getting 13:1 and fold the river UI?
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought about this when I first read the hand, but I don't think you can with the LAG behind you. I can't run the math in my head and have to run to a meeting, but having to put in two some XX% of the time really pushes this to a fold for me.
Entity
11-21-2005, 05:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No one thinks that I can call with what is almost always a 4-outer getting 13:1 and fold the river UI?
Rob
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There's a LAG behind you.
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I understand that. If there weren't a LAG behind me there's really no debating a call.
I'm pretty sure the LAG (30/22/1.8) would have capped a flush draw on the flop and he's not a retard or a maniac, just a bad handreader that gives too much preflop and flop action occasionally.
Rob
obsidian
11-21-2005, 05:32 PM
I think your 4 outs are discounted from the times the LAG has a 7 or a made flush he will raise forcing you to put more bets in drawing to 2 outs at times.
LImitPlayer
11-21-2005, 05:33 PM
I have to say this is an easy call for me. Am I the only one to think this?
He has 4 outs getting 12:1 if he hits a 7 or a K giving him more then likely the best hand.
I'm thinking Metetron would have 3 bet here if he had AA.
Why does everyone want to fold so much??
jason_t
11-21-2005, 05:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say this is an easy call for me. Am I the only one to think this?
He has 4 outs getting 12:1 if he hits a 7 or a K giving him more then likely the best hand.
I'm thinking Metetron would have 3 bet here if he had AA.
Why does everyone want to fold so much??
[/ QUOTE ]
The LAG might raise cutting our odds.
We might be drawing dead to 77.
We might be drawing to two outs to AA. We might be against a freerolling KK.
LImitPlayer
11-21-2005, 05:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The LAG might raise cutting our odds.
We might be drawing dead to 77.
We might be drawing to two outs to AA. We might be against a freerolling KK
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think you will be drawing dead to 77 often enough not to make this call.
KK would have more then likely have 3 bet the flop.
The LAG raising here might reduce our odds but it depends on the LAG.
You still may have the best hand. Metetron could just as well be holding QQ or JJ with the Q or J clubs or AK with the A clubs.
This is 3 handed with 2 TAgs and a LAg after all.
Metetron could make the flop call with AK and the A clubs getting 8:1 with the nut flush backdoor draw draw and
2 overs, it's 3 handed
I still make the call and fold the river UI
Chris Daddy Cool
11-21-2005, 05:49 PM
i don't see how this is a fold when the pot is 13:1 and hero could have 4 outs here. i know not closing the action is a concern but after all the flop action utg raising again on the turn is not as high as you'd think and if he does and metreon 3-bets then obviously you gotta fold. that is the risk you have to take to call.
there is no way metreon has a 7 (unless he has specifically 77) here and utg may or may not have one, but its also likely utg has a flush or overpair.
at best hero will be getting 14:1 with utg overcalling and at worst 16:2 if utg raises and metreon only calls. if it's 3 bets then you are out.
jason_t
11-21-2005, 05:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You still may have the best hand. Metetron could just as well be holding QQ or JJ with the Q or J clubs or AK with the A clubs.
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If you think this is possible then
[ QUOTE ]
I still make the call and fold the river UI
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seems off to me.
sublime
11-21-2005, 06:02 PM
You still may have the best hand. Metetron could just as well be holding QQ or JJ with the Q or J clubs or AK with the A clubs.
then his flop play is terrible.
thr presence of the LAG here is what sucks. these guys often raise when they are not supposed to, and if he does metereon is most def 3-betttign this turn. you have to break down how often the LAG raise the turn here and then you have your answer. to those who say the odds are 16:2 if the LAG raises you are on crack. metereon is 3-bettting this turn almost always. he *knows* rob has an overpair.
[ QUOTE ]
You still may have the best hand. Metetron could just as well be holding QQ or JJ with the Q or J clubs or AK with the A clubs.
then his flop play is terrible.
thr presence of the LAG here is what sucks. these guys often raise when they are not supposed to, and if he does metereon is most def 3-betttign this turn. you have to break down how often the LAG raise the turn here and then you have your answer. to those who say the odds are 16:2 if the LAG raises you are on crack. metereon is 3-bettting this turn almost always. he *knows* rob has an overpair.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm in the same place -- I wrote XX% as LAG's raising % and still haven't done the math, but think XX is pretty low because when the LAG raises we are putting one bet in and then not even getting to see the river most of the time ('cause Met 3-bets makiing it 2 back to us).
You got 4 outs imo since metetron has the flush. Thats enough for a call if the LAG doesnt raise..
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