BS W/ KTo HU

[POKhER]

Villan is 20/11/3.1 @ 400hands. Not logged any strange play as of yet but only seen him play for about 10hands.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Goot?
Bad?
Why?

[adsman]

By calling him down you think that he's basically got nothing, right? Because if that flop connected with him in any way then you're fecked. I don't think he has a PP because he probably would have repopped you preflop. So what I want to know is, what hands were you putting him on?

[POKhER]

Putting him on feck all, And i'd of folded the turn if i hadn't of hit that ten.

Theres two 9's and three aces, Any pocket pair and i expect a reraise.

he's pretty dam aggressive so he could have anything from xx's to Q3o...

[jrz1972]

I'm raising the turn. It costs the same as calling down, it might push villain off a weak A (unlikely, but possible), and it might stop villain from trying resteals against me in the future.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm raising the turn. It costs the same as calling down, it might push villain off a weak A (unlikely, but possible), and it might stop villain from trying resteals against me in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think you're going to push this guy off a weak Ace here? If you raise this turn and he 3bets you, well, I would personaly open-vomit.

[POKhER]

Trouble is, if he's on a bluff he's folding(Most likly) and if he's on a Ace/9 he's calling down or 3betting you.

I called down so he kept bluffing, i'd have bet the river if he checked.

[jrz1972]

No, I don't think we're folding a weak ace often, but villain is pretty tight and it only has to happen once in a blue moon to be worth it. We were calling down anyway; all we're doing is putting in both bets on this street.

I fold this to a 3-bet without a second thought. I don't think it's vomit-inducing to get pushed off a two outer.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Trouble is, if he's on a bluff he's folding(Most likly) and if he's on a Ace/9 he's calling down or 3betting you.

I called down so he kept bluffing, i'd have bet the river if he checked.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has an A or a 9 and calls us, that's fine. We were losing two bets regardless.

If he has an A or 9 and 3-bets us, that's fine. We have an easy fold. Again, we lost the same two bets we were going to lose anyway.

If he was bluffing, he might very well have given up on the river anyway. Or he might luck out and spike something that beats us (like a J with J8s). I don't mind snapping off a bluff here, especially if it keeps villain in line on future hands.

If you want to just call down, feel free to do so, especially if you don't think you can fold to a 3-bet on the turn. I'm not saying there's a huge EV difference between the two lines. This is exactly the sort of hand where you should at least consider a turn raise, however.

[adsman]

The thing is, based on those stats, villian to me seems pretty damn dangerous. On my PT, those stats signify a smiley face. I hate the smiley faces.

Against an unknown, I'm folding to the flop CR and making a note of it.

However, *if* you've established that the BB is aggro with a wide range of hands in HU situations and capable of CR-ing with air or something small, I might call and fold the turn UI. You're dead to a A or a 9, but have 7 outs to a chop plus 3 for a win against a better K-high hand, 9 against a small pocket pair, and other drawing hands are drawing to six outs. You're still putting in 2 BB to win 5.25 to the river provided you hit, so it's still probably marginal as I can't see taking a weak K-high to showdown.

Can anyone see an argument for three-betting the flop?

[POKhER]

Yeah it went through my mind when playing the hand to raise the turn, just wossed out and figured he may well bluff to the river(He'd seen me fold the river twice if he was watching - Two missed FD's).

[Koss]

[ QUOTE ]

Can anyone see an argument for three-betting the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. If this guy liks his hand now he's taking it to showdown, no matter what we or the board does. Putting in any more bets than necessary is a waste. If he's overaggressive I'd just call him down all the way and let him keep bluffing. If we raise the turn he probably folds all of his bluffs. If we're behind we lose the same, ahead we win the river bet.

I'm with you on folding to the flop c/r. If he doesn't get out of line ever than this almost always means he has an ace.

[WalkAmongUs]

I think this hand was played well. BB was pretty friggin aggressive and I think its ok to see what he's pushing with. The only other way I'd consider playin it would be like jzr said and raise the turn and check the river for a showdown. If he reraises the turn, pitch it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Can anyone see an argument for three-betting the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. If this guy liks his hand now he's taking it to showdown, no matter what we or the board does. Putting in any more bets than necessary is a waste. If he's overaggressive I'd just call him down all the way and let him keep bluffing. If we raise the turn he probably folds all of his bluffs. If we're behind we lose the same, ahead we win the river bet.

I'm with you on folding to the flop c/r. If he doesn't get out of line ever than this almost always means he has an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thought was that if the villain is CR-ing with a very wide range HU in a blind battle, you can three-bet and either fold to a cap or free-card the turn and take the K-high to showdown with quite a few outs. Additionally, you occasionally get a free showdown against better high-card hands and small pocket pairs.

Edit: Actually, this seems over-aggro. Big problem at the moment.

[POKhER]

Thread seems to be concluded so ill close it with his hand.

He flipped QJo for a bluff/blind protection so i scooped the pot(and noted it down).

[jrz1972]

FWIW, note that villain had 10 outs against you on the turn. One advantage of the "free showdown" raise is that it sometimes pressures villain into making a bad fold. That would have been the case here.

If you raise the turn and villain (correctly) calls, you've charged him the maximum for his draw. If he folds (which is pretty likely given his actual hand), you've made him make a mistake.

I know it turned out well because villain missed on the river and followed with a very poor river bet (he should have known you were showing down when you called the turn), but this hand does kind of illustrate why raising the turn can be a nice move against this sort of player.

[Buckmulligan]

Muck the flop and I don't think it's that close. Since you played it this way, I think a raise/fold for a freeshowdown is better than a calldown.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Muck the flop and I don't think it's that close

[/ QUOTE ]

weak-tight against this aggressive player. this is a well played hand.

I like the turn raise because of the texture of the board.

It makes a laydown to the 3bet super easy.

[istewart]

I think by calling the flop you are committed to showing down regardless of whether you improve or not based on his likely hand range. That said I typically would fold the flop here and watch this guy a bit.

[istewart]

Raising the turn seems fairly bad here. He folds (most) pure bluffs and maybe lower pocket pairs he was making a move with and he never folds a better hand.

[LoaferGee12]

You should not be calling this flop unless you plan on taking it to showdown regardless of improvement. That being said, I don't mind it taking it to showdown, as this is a very dry flop and very bluffable.

[jrz1972]

Do you think villain will call with QJ (his actual hand)? He should, because he has 10 outs, but I doubt most villains will continue if I stick in a turn raise.

Suppose instead that villain is on a pure bluff with garbage. If I just call the turn, why do I think villain is necessarily firing the third barrel on the river? I know this particular villain did, but many villains will sensibly give up after I make it clear that I'm showing my hand down.

In other words, yes, I think we can pressure villain into making a bad fold from time to time, and I don't think we necessarily lose anything if villain is bluffing because most of the time he's already put his last bet in the pot anyway.

If you had paired your King, a turn raise would be stupid.

I like the turn raise because your pair of tens is vulnerable. If he's bluffing with Jx or Qx and would have folded to a turn raise, you make a mistake calling down.

Your behind on this hand, Check fold on the flop