$0.25/$0.50 PS - Did I donk this up? Playing pair for set value [Archive]

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Benoit

11-21-2005, 02:24 AM

I had just sat down less then an orbit ago, but I had already noticed that is was a tight table. It was the first time I had seen MP1 raise so for all I knew he had AKs or AA/KK.

In retrospect, I was going to play for one bet, but I might have killed my implied odds by calling this raise. On the flop should I have just called his 3-bet, hoping this would convince him he is still ahead? Sacrificing one SB for the chance at an extra BB when he leads out on the turn? I guess online I hate not knowing where I'm at, so if sacrificing the chance at an extra BB will help me know where I'm at, then so be it. Is this the wrong way of thinking?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.25.
3 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 (poster) calls, Hero calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, CO folds, BB folds, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (11.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 13.20 BB

MrWookie47

11-21-2005, 02:31 AM

Preflop isn't great. I'd want another cold caller before I came along, typically. Postflop is perfect.

tyler_cracker

11-21-2005, 02:32 AM

If the table is tight, fold preflop. You're not getting much overlay to try and hit your set.

On the flop, once the other dead money folds, just call the 3-bet and raise the turn.

How does capping the flop help you "know out where you're at"?

MrWookie47

11-21-2005, 02:38 AM

I missed "knowing where I'm at." Never make a -EV play to know where you're at. You cap the flop because you're ahead most of the time, and if you're not, you have a solid draw to a boat. I generally prefer capping now on this board.

cold_cash

11-21-2005, 02:39 AM

I'll tell you where you're at on the flop: You're winning, and hoping no more spades come off.

What I want to know is, why do you care where you're at?

Are you going to find a fold somewhere along the line?

11-21-2005, 02:42 AM

The cold call preflop is bad since you thought the table was tight, lucky for you there were callers behind.

I think calling the 3-bet is the best line here, in case he has flopped the flush, especially if its not the nut flush. A cap will scare any low flush, but a call probably won't stop aggression from a hand like K /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Since you fill up on the turn, rest of the hand is fine. Like you said, calling the 3-bet adds deception to your hand.

Also, I don't think capping the flop will let you know where you stand, since he can't act again until the turn. If another spade hits and he bets out, how does capping the flop help you define his hand? Capping is COMPLETELY for value here IMO, and making him pay if he has a hand like A /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

Steve

Benoit

11-21-2005, 03:05 AM

Yeah you're right, I was donking it up pre-flop, post flop I was so excited to hit my set that I wasn't thinking much except to be aggresive and make his draw pay - deception had left my head...

When he showed what he showed, I was amazed. Of all the hands he could have had, I felt lucky it was that. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Results below:
MP1 has Ac As (two pair, aces and tens).
Hero has 2h 2d (full house, twos full of tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.20 BB.

11-21-2005, 03:26 AM

I just finished Barry Greensteins "Ace on the River", and he talks about making the perfect play vs. making the correct play, where the "perfect play" is what you would have done if the opponents cards had been exposed during the hand. The way you played it was probably the "correct" play, but in retrospect we know calling the 3-bet and raising the turn would have won you the most money on this hand. I think this is a great way to analyze one's play...read his book if you get the chance.

It's very different from the 2+2 style, and the "advance play" section focuses a lot more on how to play the player rather than the cards. Looking at the hand this way helps figure out other players tendencies, as well as opening up other lines that maybe you would not have thought of taking before.

The book is also great for aspiring pros as it talks about many aspects of the game besides the cards, including money management and psychology.

Steve

11-21-2005, 08:14 AM

I like it. I love these kind of hands because the majority of players have no idea what you have and you milk them dry on these hands. Wish the flop was a rainbow but the later streets looks like the flush draw was missed.