AK unimproved

Apologies if this is boringly standard. Recently my broadway cards have been whiffing nonstop and it's got me wondering if I am playing them wrong on somewhat drawish boards.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Is this worth a river bet to try and pick up the pot? No reads on opponents, but they aren't noticably tight or loose. My only thought is a river bet might get people with A2 or 23 drawing their straight to muck bottom pair ...

[DCWildcat]

NH. I hate bluffing into &gt;1 opponent when it's one bet to see showdown.

[MrWookie47]

Betting the river here would be terrible. Either you've won already, or you're not folding them both. Betting the turn is questionable into two villains. Betting into one is pretty standard, but with two, I'll want something of a read. You could take the free card and try to spike something.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
Apologies if this is boringly standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I accept.

Well played. Unless I have a great read on a specific villain, check behind is my standard for A high. No way one of these guys mucks a piece of the board on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
Betting the river here would be terrible. Either you've won already, or you're not folding them both. Betting the turn is questionable into two villains. Betting into one is pretty standard, but with two, I'll want something of a read. You could take the free card and try to spike something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see ... I have this ridiculous fear that checking the turn might inspire busted draws to stab on the river ... and it's a tough call to make with an Ace-high ... I guess in a 3-way pot the chances of this are reduced.

Do you bet the turn against 2 opponents when OOP? What about 3 opponents?

[MrWookie47]

It depends on the opponents and the board, largely. Some opponents will peel almost any flop, but will fold any turn where they don't have a piece. Against tighter opponents, you're better off not betting that turn, but against players like that, fire away. With three players, you'll almost never good here, and you're not going to fold them.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
you'll almost never good here

[/ QUOTE ]

not true, you are good here a solid amount of the time

[ QUOTE ]
and you're not going to fold them.



[/ QUOTE ]

true(at least when they have you beat)

[ QUOTE ]
It depends on the opponents and the board, largely. Some opponents will peel almost any flop, but will fold any turn where they don't have a piece. Against tighter opponents, you're better off not betting that turn, but against players like that, fire away. With three players, you'll almost never good here, and you're not going to fold them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there any fold potential for someone holding A2 .. or 23 (unlikely) ... or .... i guess that's it. I think someone with a 5 is going to see a showdown 90% of the time.

[cold_cash]

I think you'll win the pot often enough on the turn to justify betting at it.

There are also a few draws out there, so it also protects your hand when you're winning.

I wouldn't do it everytime, especially against two opponents, but I'd do it this time.

(This is kind of interesting because of what might happen if you get check-raised, due to your gut-shot. I would still bet the turn though, because with the board and that draw I'm letting it go if I get raised.)

And to answer your above question, I doubt anyone with a pair or an open-ender is folding. On the upside though, other Aces and overcards could easily be out there.

Basically I think you'll win the pot more than 17% of the time with a turn bet, even against two opponents. Other times you'll have the best hand on the turn, the draws will call and miss, and you check the river through and win.

[MrWookie47]

I agree. My language was too strong. I should have said, "you're much less likely to be good." You're ahead a real amount of the time, though.

I'd probably fire at the river, thinking at least one of them whiffed the flush and the other just has Ax or some other missed hand. You didn't give any reads/PT though so its hard to say whether I'd bet or just check behind. Lets just say I would only bet if I thought MHWG, based on reads, and I would check behind if I thought someone had a piece of the board, because they would certainly call at 1/2 6-max.

Steve

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fire at the river, thinking at least one of them whiffed the flush and the other just has Ax or some other missed hand. You didn't give any reads/PT though so its hard to say whether I'd bet or just check behind. Lets just say I would only bet if I thought MHWG, based on reads, and I would check behind if I thought someone had a piece of the board, because they would certainly call at 1/2 6-max.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

How could you tell if one of them had Ax rather than 5x?

If you bet the river and actually get called, you're probably good about 1 time in 30.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fire at the river, thinking at least one of them whiffed the flush and the other just has Ax or some other missed hand. You didn't give any reads/PT though so its hard to say whether I'd bet or just check behind. Lets just say I would only bet if I thought MHWG, based on reads, and I would check behind if I thought someone had a piece of the board, because they would certainly call at 1/2 6-max.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

I think my reason for betting would be the opposite - my hand is no good but I can get a marginal bottom pair to fold. If my hand was good I can't see a worse hand calling a river bet enough times to make the value bet worth my while ...

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fire at the river, thinking at least one of them whiffed the flush and the other just has Ax or some other missed hand. You didn't give any reads/PT though so its hard to say whether I'd bet or just check behind. Lets just say I would only bet if I thought MHWG, based on reads, and I would check behind if I thought someone had a piece of the board, because they would certainly call at 1/2 6-max.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

um remember you could be ahead 90% of the time on the river, but if they only call when you are beat .. you need to check, this isn't that extreme but your post shows a misunderstanding in that general comment, if they don't fold a betterhand/chop ever, then you need to have the best hand 55% of the time you are called ..

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet the river and actually get called, you're probably good about 1 time in 30.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cash its 1/2, I could see A3,A6, A8-AQ all calling(and playing the hand that way)

I played about 1k hands of 1/2 6max over the past 2days, and the play is sickeningly bad(and extremely profitable)

its prob more like good 1/6 when its 1caller, 1/20 when both call

either way betting isn't good

River bet is probably not going to get anyone to fold. You played it right.