(55) So you've decided to represent trips... [Archive]

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Slim Pickens

11-20-2005, 09:14 PM

Party Poker $55 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

MP3 (t1000)
CO (t990)
Button (t970)
SB (t985)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t985)
UTG+1 (t1045)
UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t1025)
Hero (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to t45, 3 folds, SB calls t35, 1 fold.

Flop: (t105) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t95, SB raises to t190, Hero calls t95.

Turn: (t485) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets t200, Hero ???

What range of hands do you put SB on and how often is he bluffing?

11-20-2005, 09:22 PM

raise 5x BB pf at least

you gotta protect KK from the donkies

durron597

11-20-2005, 09:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]

you gotta protect KK from your own reverse implied odds

[/ QUOTE ]

microbet

11-20-2005, 09:38 PM

Anything is possible, but I think his turn bet is too weak to be trips that often. He didn't slowplay the flop after all.

I think I'm calling. There are some draws out there, so I'm not sure, but I think calling is good.

Paul Thomson

11-20-2005, 09:57 PM

I think microbet has it right. I'd call.

golfcchs

11-20-2005, 11:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

you gotta protect KK from your own reverse implied odds

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice /images/graemlins/smile.gif

wiggs73

11-20-2005, 11:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'm calling. There are some draws out there, so I'm not sure, but I think calling is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you do if a 3rd flush / straight card comes on the river?

And also, how bad is pushing the turn? I'm guessing your calling for pot-control reasons incase villain does have trips and/or to induce a river bluff from a missed draw. But if villain is on a draw, would pushing the turn not be a better option?

ebaudry

11-21-2005, 12:14 AM

If we're assuming you have no read on the villain, then we don't know if he's playing solid poker or not. He has $55 is about all we know.

You preflop raise was smallish, some people protect their blinds with any 2, so we can't know too much about his pocket.

I'd assume he could have:

-any pair
-AK/AQ/AJ/A9/KQ clubs
-a T with a high card
-total bluff

i think a good player would get more money out the hand with a T-something hand. But since we don't know anything about the villain, its safer to assume they are so-so.

Chance they're bluffing: 10-20%

11-21-2005, 12:55 AM

I reraise him on the flop to really see if he has a 10 or not. It gives you an indication of the strength of his hand b/c u now show major strength. If he comes over the top of you on the flop again I would fold.

gisb0rne

11-21-2005, 01:05 AM

I never fold an overpair at $55 and less against just 1 opponent. I would call the turn. I prefer reraising all-in on the flop.

I would say he's bluffing, on a flush draw, has an 8, or has pocket pair at least 75% of the time.

bigt439

11-21-2005, 02:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anything is possible, but I think his turn bet is too weak to be trips that often. He didn't slowplay the flop after all.

I think I'm calling. There are some draws out there, so I'm not sure, but I think calling is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this logic about the size of the turn bet because I think lots of people make poor bets with strong hands.

I do however think it is a call. He could still have a lot of hands, many of which you beat, and many of those that will check the river unimproved. I am comfortable calling here and folding to any significant bet on the river. I do think he has a ten alot though, just not enough for you to fold yet.

Slim Pickens

11-21-2005, 02:48 AM

A few things so far...

1) My preflop raise was my standard Level 1 no limpers preflop raise and that's the way it's gonna be. I may decide that I want to raise a different amount for my raising hands in Level 1 with no limpers but there's no way I'm chaging it based on any factors that can't be seen by my opponents (my cards).

2) My gut instinct was to fold to this turn bet. Usually anyone dim enough to check-minraise bluff the flop will then check the turn. I mean, that's just a stupid play if you don't think you have something real, and even at the 55's I'm not giving people much credit for that level of sophistication (unless I have data on them). The question is, do I have more than they do (99, JJ, QQ)/are they semi-bluffing with two clubs. (Note I have the club redraw so I'm less likely to instantly give up now that the pot is so bog if I call and another club hits.)

A little more and I'll let you all know what happened...

bigt439

11-21-2005, 03:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My preflop raise was my standard Level 1 no limpers preflop raise and that's the way it's gonna be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do people say things like this? Some people are so dedicated to improving their game and then so stubborn regarding seemingly random issues.

Slim Pickens

11-21-2005, 03:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My preflop raise was my standard Level 1 no limpers preflop raise and that's the way it's gonna be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do people say things like this? Some people are so dedicated to improving their game and then so stubborn regarding seemingly random issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Varying your raise amount based on your cards in any sort of systematic way is a bad idea because it gives infomation about your hand. I will vary my raise amount based on position, stack sizes, and the number of limpers as to give myself the best odds (both pot and implied) to play the hand. Also, I said I'm open to the idea of varying the amount of my standard raise if there's a reason to fine-tune it, so I'm not claiming that exactly 45 is perfectly correct now and forever.

The problem with this hand is that if he's going to stack me every single time he flops two-pair or better, I'm giving people correct implied odds to call with any two. I have to be able to take a lot of chips from people some of the time to play this hand profitably and this might be a spot where I need to not lose a lot. It might also be a spot where I stand to win a lot, so I need to get it right.

bennies

11-21-2005, 06:20 AM

Representing trips, a dialogue.

Preflop :
Hero: I got something.
Villain: I'll take these odds.

Flop :
Villain: Go ahead and c-bet this.
Hero: Here!
Villain: Baah, no chance you hit this flop!
Hero: You're right, I'll try to hit the turn though.

Turn :
Villain: Haha, I don't think that 5 helped you!
Hero: You're right, crap I only got KK, maybe I should fold it!!!??!!!! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Taraz

11-21-2005, 06:34 AM

gisb0rne

11-21-2005, 06:36 AM

11-21-2005, 10:51 AM

Tough situation!!
The only hands that have u beat are AA & AT both he could have (i doubt he has a weaker hand like KT), i never put any1 on quads. AA would of reraised u preflop so What we have left is AT!!!!
His reraise after the flop says he isnt on a draw.
The key is his turn bet, u called his reraise so he knows u have something but is still willing to bet, i think that shows he isnt messing.

For the argument facing a bluff, he probably isnt putting u on a T so he may be playing you here but i feel he wouldnt bluff twice at this hand. so im thinkin thats not a factor!

Slim Pickens

11-21-2005, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Representing trips, a dialogue.

Preflop :
Hero: I got something.
Villain: I'll take these odds.

Flop :
Villain: Go ahead and c-bet this.
Hero: Here!
Villain: Baah, no chance you hit this flop!
Hero: You're right, I'll try to hit the turn though.

Turn :
Villain: Haha, I don't think that 5 helped you!
Hero: You're right, crap I only got KK, maybe I should fold it!!!??!!!! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This was exactly what I was thinking too after hitting the time bank. The only thing that threw me was the minraise. That's a terrible idea if he thinks I missed the flop because now I'm looking at close to correct pot odds to call anyway, and I'll probably get a lot more out of him when I hit. On the turn blank, of course he's betting. Duh. Sure, there are some hands that beat me, but a lot that don't.

I pushed ("Yeah [censored][blank]-er, you like that? I was suckering you in by looking weak on the flop and getting you to bet out the turn. Now I have half your chips in the pot and you're on a flush draw. Only some super-donkey would call this. This is a Party Poker $55, not the WSOP Main Event." He folded.