AA big blind 20-40

[mike l.]

very loose 20-40 in so cal. 9 handed. 5 players limp, sb completes and i raise in the bb w/ AhAs. some players moan as ive been playing tight. all call.

the flop is KhQh4s. i bet, utg calls, folded around to button who calls, sb folds. 3 of us now.

the turn is Th. i bet, utg raises, folded to me and i call.

the river is Kd. i bet.

comments?

[Tommy Angelo]

Don't you love it when they moan? Always a sign of healthy frequencies, I think.

Looks like the whole hand is on the river, right? And there's plenty of case for either way, betting out or calling down. Somewhere in there is the old will-he-ever-raise-the-river-with-a-hand-I-can-beat thing. To whatever degree he won't, and to whatever degree you can find the fold, then your river bet becomes better.

In favor of checking is that with that board, given that you the moanmaker raised preflop, you've got about the worst hand you could have, in his mind, maybe. Could very well be that betting the river and checking are tied in expectation. But I like the bet for establishing and maintaining hierarchy.

Tommy

[Rick Nebiolo]

Mike,

Did you consider a reraise on the turn? Your Ah tends to protect you from spunky additional reraises (although a very good UTG should know you won't raise BTF without a big pair or good heart to go with your ace of hearts and two good hearts are on the board). If you do face a turn reraise you of course call since you are still going to like the river with any board card pairing, any heart, any jack, or any ace.

On the river I like your bet primarily because a KJ could lay down (fearing AK) and will almost never raise you (you fold to raises anyway).

~ Rick

[leon]

If you fold to a river raise I like the bet.

BTW do you live out in San Diego? I'm moving there next year and I was wondering where I can play and what the games are like- I've heard the rumors, of course /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

Leon

[elysium]

hi mike
it looks like you're against a boat here, or a straight. mike, i know this will sound weak, but i just have a bad feeling about this one.

it's funny because as you do the 2+2 thing more and more, you develop a sense of when a poster is posting a winning or losing post. you won this one, but dang it; i don't like the river bet; and as weak as this sounds, mike i think you can lay this one down against a tight opponent.

[Zeno]

"But I like the bet for establishing and maintaining hierarchy."

Sometimes a simple sentence is worth more than a whole essay.


-Zeno

[mike l.]

"it's funny because as you do the 2+2 thing more and more, you develop a sense of when a poster is posting a winning or losing post. you won this one, but dang it"

youre so consistently wrong it's astounding. i lost. utg just called my river bet and he showed J9o for the turned straight.

[mike l.]

"Could very well be that betting the river and checking are tied in expectation."

that was the conclusion i came to after thinking and thinking about this one for days. i figured i was very likely beat but i also figured he would call with a pair of Qs if he was just being silly on the turn and that even if there was only a 1 percent chance he would lay down a hand better than mine that added value since the pot was pretty big by then. also i planned to check-call if he bet no matter what, but also planned to fold to a river raise if i bet no matter what and there was absolutely no uncertainty on my part regarding that.

but most of all i did it for this reason: ive noticed lately otherwise super weak awful loose bad players sometimes betting on the river if they knew they planned to call a bet. now i understand all the merits of this from what ive read in theory of poker and on here and from experience, but to be honest it's a play i have never really made much, it just never felt quite right to me. so i found in this hand and in this scenario basically the perfect opportunity to give it a try. so it was a real victory in that sense.

[mike l.]

"Did you consider a reraise on the turn?"

gold star for getting past the river and looking at another street. yes i did consider and yes i did think it was a potentially good way to play it, but my sense was that now that we were heads up it was time to just get to the showdown.

but after posting the hand and thinking about it there's another street that's bothering me a little and it's not preflop. do you see why?

[mike l.]

"BTW do you live out in San Diego?"

yes north county san diego, oceanside. oceans 11 is the club and the games range from amazing loose, usually more aggressive than not, and sometimes unfortunately loose and tricky and tough. swings aplenty are very possible. basically if you are moving for poker i highly recommend LA over this (and not commerce, the other clubs have generally softer fishier games) although the games are good here and there are some bigger wild games (30-60, 60-120) down south of here in san diego central.

[leon]

Thanks for the info. I'm actually moving for job reasons. Poker, while hopefully being profitable, will remain a secondary pursuit.

Where does the UCSD medical center fall in relation to all this? Close to the North, Central, South? Funny b/c I'm moving there but know close to nothing about the layout of the town.

Leon

[Rook1]

I think if you are going to showdown for sure that your risking a reraise.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Mike,

You wrote: "but after posting the hand and thinking about it there's another street that's bothering me a little and it's not preflop. do you see why?"

Well, it can't be the river since that is what the post was about and it can't be the turn since I brought that up so it must be the flop.

It is possible you now considered checking the flop representing a JJ thru 88 that was good enough to raise BTF but decided it would be foolish to bet the flop with two connected overcards. This flop is almost sure to get bet anyway and you have a lot of options once it comes back to you.

~ Rick

[anatta]

Leon,

USCD Medical Center is located in Hillcrest, which is just a few minutes north of Downtown (I think thats why they call it "uptown"!). So that would be center. Mike is north in Oceanside, you are about 30-40 minutes away from Ocean's 11. Hillcrest is about 10 minutes away from the Lucky Lady, where they spread an 8-16 kill as their biggest game.

[mike l.]

"This flop is almost sure to get bet anyway'

right. but in this one weird case my uber-tightness in this session made it so it may get checked through on the flop. but nevertheless maybe it was worth a checkraise. after all i have AA w/ the Ah so im not worried about an overcard or heart coming off. plus the more aggressive players at the table were all directly on my right. if i had checkraised successfully on the flop then utg wouldve been out and my hand wouldve likely been good (this is provided someone in late position didnt have a K they ended up w/ on the river).

so maybe going for a field-clearing checkraise on the flop was the right play?

[leon]

[elysium]

hi mike
i challenge anyone to do any better with mike l than i have.

[Rick Nebiolo]

mike,

the key is that you are thinking about all reasonable alternatives on every street. under the conditions you describe, the checkraise is certainly reasonable. however, don't get in the habit of judging the merits on results i.e., "then utg wouldve been out"

~ rick

[John Ho]

Not a fan of the river bet. That is the worst card I can think of for your hand. I don't see many worse hands calling here.

I would check and really might not even call if he bets. Your hand has turned into pure crap here. However, the pot is probably too big to fold unless he is really predictable since someone with Q-10 might bet the river out of pure frustration.