Sony CDs Rootkit Your Systems (Bad news)

[Matt Flynn]

This is last week in the tech world, but many Sony CD's secretly rootkit your system. See the links below for a discussion of what that is. It is bad. A rootkit essentially creates an environment "around" your system that the system cannot see. It is invisible to antispyware and other malware detection software. It cannot be tracked by regular means. The Sony malware can easily be exploited by hackers and has already been. It can also screw up your devices and some programs.

Thanks to my buddy Earl, here are some Links:

The blog posting by Mark Russinovich that started the furor in which a
security techie discovers the rootkit. Basically, it's a geek
detective story.

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html


Washington Post picks up the story:

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/sony_raids_hack.html


Slashdot picks up a second Russinovich blog in which he shows the Sony's
DRM phones home.

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/07/1221209&tid=233&tid=207&tid=10

Why rootkits should be illegal; Malware that exploits Sony's rootkit
appears:

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/10/1615239&tid=172&tid=233


Sony's wonderful EULA analyzed:

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004145.php


Here's the must read: Bruce Schneir (a big crypto-guy) asks why the
anti-virus didn't detect Sony's DRM rootkit.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/11/sonys_drm_rootk.html


Hmmm, the security companies are evidently NOT going to protect you from
malware put out by companies. Also, you do really think that Sony is
the only one doing this?

Enjoy. If you want to test for it, go to http://www.f-secure.com/blacklight/ and download their beta-test rootkit detector.

I am putting Sony on a two-year boycott for this. Worse, it looks like I'll have to go Linux once the new Microsoft operating system comes out. Unreal.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
I am putting Sony on a two-year boycott for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you think this order came from the ceo? sony is a monster company, no doubt with billions of divisions, vice presidents, and managers. the audio cd people have likely never even met the dvd player people. the dvd player people haven't met the television people. etc. sony has gotten a lot of deserved anti-press over this.

your boycott won't do anything individually, which i'm sure you know, but feel it's worth it on principle which would be fine. but what i'm suggesting is that the idea of boycotting everything they make (if that is your intention) seems kind of dumb, because each division can effectively be seen as its own company. for a philosophical boycott, how about just skipping their audio cds? that way if you think the playstation 3 or some other product looks cool, you can still buy one.

i've never understood why people would stop eating at a restaurant over a bad waiter, stop shopping at a store over a bad salesperson, etc. there are other waiters and there are managers to which you can complain and actually make a difference as opposed to simply not showing up. running up the chain of command until you get a response that satisfies you isn't a big hassle, and at a minimum you'll usually get free stuff out of it. one of my stepfathers had all sorts of places where he "couldn't go" because of isolated problems. as a consumer, he screwed himself.

[ QUOTE ]
Worse, it looks like I'll have to go Linux once the new Microsoft operating system comes out. Unreal.

[/ QUOTE ]

vista isn't even close to being released. if you decide for whatever reason that it sucks, you'd still be infinitely better off with a mac over a pc with linux if you value day-to-day usability.

[wonderwes]

I read this on Yahoo news. This story came out late on Friday, but it will get a lot of attention next week. This is a huge ordeal.

Its really scary that companies like Sony are tracking you and invading your PC's for their own well being. Kinda like when party poker port scan's your box.

Can't trust anyone these days.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the must read: Bruce Schneir (a big crypto-guy) asks why the
anti-virus didn't detect Sony's DRM rootkit.

[/ QUOTE ]


Because a rootkit isnt a virus? And from what I read, the program wasnt even a rootkit per se.

[Matt Flynn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the must read: Bruce Schneir (a big crypto-guy) asks why the
anti-virus didn't detect Sony's DRM rootkit.

[/ QUOTE ]


Because a rootkit isnt a virus? And from what I read, the program wasnt even a rootkit per se.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is.

[Matt Flynn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am putting Sony on a two-year boycott for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you think this order came from the ceo? sony is a monster company, no doubt with billions of divisions, vice presidents, and managers. the audio cd people have likely never even met the dvd player people. the dvd player people haven't met the television people. etc. sony has gotten a lot of deserved anti-press over this.

your boycott won't do anything individually, which i'm sure you know, but feel it's worth it on principle which would be fine. but what i'm suggesting is that the idea of boycotting everything they make (if that is your intention) seems kind of dumb, because each division can effectively be seen as its own company. for a philosophical boycott, how about just skipping their audio cds? that way if you think the playstation 3 or some other product looks cool, you can still buy one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely I want to punish the whole company. It encourages Sony and other companies to create cultures of responsibility and holds them accountable.

Sony's recalling the problem, as I read it...

related stories (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176021,00.html)

[BadBoyBenny]

Do you really believe that if this software had been installed by an adware agency a small freeware company or they wouldn't have done anything?

[astroglide]

i think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face here

[PhatTBoll]

Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.

As it is, this seems a lot like the occasional weakness in Windows that gets a lot of press every now and then. The problem is identified, made public, and fixed. It just seems like a lot of hyperventilating. Wasn't it common knowledge that manufacturers were putting anti-theft software on their CD's?

[Freakin]

In an interview with some high-up Sony dude, I heard him say "Well, most people really don't even know what a rootkit is, so they shouldn't care that we're installing one"

....

Yes, I'm serious.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely I want to punish the whole company. It encourages Sony and other companies to create cultures of responsibility and holds them accountable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you on this one Flynn. Also, I totally disagree with astro's opinion that you won't make a difference. Sony may not feel it immediately but you are spreading word via a heavily trafficked forum. Word spreads and consumers, even if they don't fully boycott, may be influenced enough to choose another brand if they are on the edge. Simply laying down and doing nothing only invite more of this behavior.

Also, I don't think a waiter and a giant corporation are all that related. A corporation like sony has the power to set industry standards. A waiter will never effect your life outside of a restaurant. This is simply not true with a giant corporation that has power to set industry standards and effect your everyday life. If you complain to a restaurant manager they will listen and possibly fire someone. Odds are a company like sony will only blow you off if you complain about their DRM techniques being intrusive and too hard core.

That being said I understand what astro meant, I just don't think it applies all that well.

If anyone gets "free stuff" from sony (other than a BMG CD of course) by complaining about their DRM techniques I will truly be amazed.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.



[/ QUOTE ]

In other news, two wrongs DO make a right.


And sluts are just asking to get raped. Dressing all slutty and whatnot.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.



[/ QUOTE ]

In other news, two wrongs DO make a right.


And sluts are just asking to get raped. Dressing all slutty and whatnot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just compare some software on a computer to rape? [censored] off.

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.



[/ QUOTE ]

In other news, two wrongs DO make a right.


And sluts are just asking to get raped. Dressing all slutty and whatnot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just compare some software on a computer to rape? [censored] off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sony is raping your computer, or at least holding you down while someone else rapes it.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.



[/ QUOTE ]

In other news, two wrongs DO make a right.


And sluts are just asking to get raped. Dressing all slutty and whatnot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just compare some software on a computer to rape? [censored] off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I contrasted your "blame the victim" attitude in this case with another situation where the desire to blame the victim commonly occurs, douchebag.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.



[/ QUOTE ]

In other news, two wrongs DO make a right.


And sluts are just asking to get raped. Dressing all slutty and whatnot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just compare some software on a computer to rape? [censored] off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sony is raping your computer, or at least holding you down while someone else rapes it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting that they are intentionally making computers vulnerable to hackers? If so, you are very dumb.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.



[/ QUOTE ]

In other news, two wrongs DO make a right.


And sluts are just asking to get raped. Dressing all slutty and whatnot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just compare some software on a computer to rape? [censored] off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sony is raping your computer, or at least holding you down while someone else rapes it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting that they are intentionally making computers vulnerable to hackers? If so, you are very dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really your honor, when I broke into the house I had absolutely NO INTENTION of killing anybody, I just wanted to rob the place.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.



[/ QUOTE ]

In other news, two wrongs DO make a right.


And sluts are just asking to get raped. Dressing all slutty and whatnot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just compare some software on a computer to rape? [censored] off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I contrasted your "blame the victim" attitude in this case with another situation where the desire to blame the victim commonly occurs, douchebag.

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't contrast anything. Poopy head.

And I never said that this stuff is "right" or "deserved." It just is. It's business. A group of very rich people and probably several consulting firms came to the conclusion that the potential fallout from this would be worth the protection of the company's rights and money. What was threatening their rights and money? People stealing like crazy.

[Blarg]

Thanks very much for putting this up. I've been reading about this kind of thing over the past couple of days, when reading about the similar Starforce system and how it has damaged some people's computers. Some very interesting forum threads came up in which this damage was noted by some very reliable people as a not-uncommon occurence. Two included a managing editor at Toms Hardware and an editor at PC Gamer(UK) among others, who have had to rebuild systems because Starforce corrupted their test bed systems so thoroughly, and have had colleagues have to do the same numerous times.

If hackers were doing this, they could be put in jail for it. It's on very shaky ground, and Sony is being sued for it in two states for it. Installing things on customers' computers that could potentially damage them without letting them know the potential risks is a double whammy against consumers, most of whom probably have nothing remotely like the skill to figure out what might be causing their system problems, much less reinstall hardware or software components or rebuild systems entirely. Other afflicted with these problems merely report things like system slowdowns, intermittently functioning drives, or non-functioning sound, but clearly under no circumstances would most people be willing to risk having an essentially hostile and damaging piece of software on their system. The basic premises of either installing what is essentially a trojan on your system, as well as that of causing damage and disabling the expensive equipment of ordinary consumers but not being held responsible for it, are pretty insupportable.

This is the kind of "cure" that is worse than the disease. Especially since the very first people who are going to get around this kind of malware are pirates in the first place, exactly the people they're intended to stop. The person who is potentially really going to be hit hard is the person who doesn't even know what is going on or what to do about it, and may spend a great deal of time and money trying to figure it out. And, worst of all -- more than once.

Here's the link to my post on Starforce and Sony's DRM. This includes some good links and a list of Starforced games and publishers. This kind of thing is so important I think it's worth stickying on any forum on the internet regardless of the forum's focus. This is a high-powered attack on absolutely everyone who owns a computer.

Starforce and rootkit post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=3983610&S earchpage=1&Main=3976188&Words=starforce+Blarg&top ic=&Search=true#Post3983610)

[astroglide]

official buyback program with sony-provided mp3 downloads (http://www.upsrow.com/sonybmg/)

amazon.com email informing all buyers that they are eligible for refunds (http://forum.dshield.org/read.php?3,22699,22737#msg-22737)

usa today article on recall (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-11-14-sony-cds_x.htm)

sony's list of affected items (all of which are being replaced in stores) (http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/titles.html)

register article on rootkit-targetting trojan (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/10/sony_drm_trojan/)

sony's press statement on the issue via reuters (http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2005-11-11T183106Z_01_MOL166114_RTRIDST_0_TECH-SONY-COPYPROTECTION-DC.XML&archived=False)

washington post article with a bush administration official admonishing sony (http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/the_bush_admini.html)

wired article on infection rates (http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,69573,00.html)

free microsoft antispyware product updated to remove the rootkit (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10050095/)

sony eula investigated after the attention was drawn to them along with possible illegal use of open source code (http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=business&id=2770)

electronic frontier foundation soliciting feedback for a potential class-action lawsuit (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004149.php)

another class-action lawsuit from news.com (http://news.com.com/Why+they+say+spyware+is+good+for+you/2010-1071_3-5934150.html)

with the waiter comment i was literally talking about waiters and restaurants. it was inspired by the belief that boycotting sony for 2 years is a boner move. i wasn't suggesting that people contact sony or try to get free stuff or whatever from them. they're painfully aware of the problem already because the media has 'contacted the manager'. i was talking about how i think it's dumb to take a good idea like not getting walked on as a customer and proceeding to [censored] yourself by refusing to patronize an otherwise good establishment instead of actually getting them to address the problem. so i think people who love the food and hate the service that never go back after the first trip are dumb. separate, but similar topic.

i guess i'm a real freedom-hating heretic for suggesting that this topic just might have been noticed already. for weeks now you can't read the news without running into the story.

does this mean i don't care? no. does this mean i'm not going to [censored] myself over and refuse to buy a playstation 3 or whatever if it's a product i want? that's exactly what it means.

[Blarg]

Who cares? That's your decision, and you can do what you like, as can anyone else. It's ridiculous to criticise a consumer for putting his money where his mouth is. That's the greatest power he has. That doing so is not an exact science goes without saying, and the fact that it isn't is a very poor rationalization for not doing it.

The idea that you would really suffer by not buying a Sony product is also not a very compelling one no matter what you think about rootkits.

It also doesn't matter at all if other people have heard or said something about an issue before and it can be found on google. Most everything can. Most people know little or nothing about this, and couldn't be hurt by knowing a little more. I'll look at one or two of the links you provided too, so I can know a little bit more about it myself. And I'm glad that this is being discussed, because it's a serious and potentially quite costly issue that raises some interesting questions about where and how the lines are or can be drawn.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
It's ridiculous to criticise a consumer for putting his money where his mouth is. That's the greatest power he has.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's seriously retarded that i have to spell this out for you, but that's not what i'm doing. i was trying to save the guy some trouble because sony makes a lot of crap and they are 100% aware of the problem. if they didn't make a lot of crap i wouldn't have bothered, because it wouldn't be likely to affect him as a consumer. if there was any possibility that they weren't aware of the problem, i'd say, "hey cool they should be forced to deal with this issue."

this is literally one guy saying to another guy, "you could easily be hosing yourself if you won't buy anything they make for 2 years. even though they know what the problem is, i totally understand if you feel strongly about the offense and want to vote with your wallet. how about targetting the specific group that did it? it still sends the message, and has much less chance of a buying collision for you."

i knew somebody was bound to take up the I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE AGAINST FREEDOM AND AMERICA SIR thing because i dared to suggest that, despite how valuable and important the practice is, it's simply unnecessary here if the goal is to inform because they're already well-informed. i'm surprised it was you that did it, though.

i also never said or implied that he shouldn't have raised the topic.

[Blarg]

Being aware of the problem is no answer to anything. Of course they're aware of the problem. They're the one who decided to use a rootkit in the first place, which decision is just as creepy as whether the rootkit does any damage. A corporation being aware that they're creating problems is supposed to be some sort of palliative on the matter?

Boycotting them for a while is not a wasted effort, regardless of whether all their products are affected. Less money going in their coffers coincident with them making a major and ill-spirited attempt at messing with their customers could help send a message that even a bean counter would understand quite clearly. It's just not the case that the only way Sony would get an important message is by a sort of surgical strike of a boycott. And it's not the case that there isn't satisfaction to be gained by doing things on principle even when their effect isn't flawlessly precise. Tremendous precision is just not necessarily that important here.

I think you're off your rocker on the second paragraph, because that has nothing to do with anything I said. I'm going to leave you in your own little world on that one. I read your response before you edited it to put that in, and it wasn't a good addition that really addressed anything.

[ QUOTE ]
feel free to point out the part where i said he shouldn't have brought up the topic as well. i never said or implied that.


[/ QUOTE ]

Here's your implication:

[ QUOTE ]
this topic just might have been noticed already. for weeks now you can't read the news without running into the story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hype down. This is a thread, not a war, and I think you're flying off the handle.

[astroglide]

one part of sony is bound to have absolutely no idea what other parts of sony are doing, so having everybody top to bottom know about the issue is infact a largely notable event. if the goal is for them to solve this problem and avoid it in the future, i believe the work is well underway, and that is enough for me. i don't feel compelled to 'punish them' at a potentially signifigant cost to my choices as a consumer when individually it won't make a difference, and in aggregate it would collapse as we know a giant company that's already got stock trading around 1997 levels.

i've got people telling me that i'm criticizing the exercise of consumer freedoms when it's plainly obvious that i'm not. do you realize how infuriating it is when people "educate" you by telling you something you literally just proved to them? and we're talking about stuff where i would have to be the biggest moron on earth to disagree with it. yeah, buddy, i'm totally against rights.

also, the part where you're claiming i implied he shouldn't have raised the subject is totally out of context. i said it to illustrate that sony is aware of the problem, not that everybody else was. lots of people don't read news.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
i think people who love the food and hate the service that never go back after the first trip are dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on this 100%.

[ QUOTE ]
hink it's dumb to take a good idea like not getting walked on as a customer and proceeding to [censored] yourself by refusing to patronize an establishment instead of actually getting them to address the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. However, a sony boycot isn't exactly [censored] yourself is it? You've got tons of alternatives for almost all of their products. A boycott would be of little inconvenience let alone [censored] yourself.

Look, basically I agree with everything you say except for the fact that indivual boycotts are useless. Think about it. Why does the "media's 'contacting the manager'" work in the first place? It's because they are afraid of declining sales. If you tell people an individual boycott is useless (and they listen to you) than you pretty much take away the power of the media to contact the manager.

Yes I know it's in the news. Still, if the populace is educated or conditioned not to boycott (as you seem to be doing) then the media loses it's power

Also, there is a long history of boycotts of products irrelevant to the issues being the critical factor in swaying the company to change it's stance in a different area. So telling people that boycotting the whole company isn't an acceptable route simply isn't true.


[ QUOTE ]
i guess i'm a real freedom-hating heretic for suggesting that this topic just might have been noticed already.

[/ QUOTE ]

freedom hating Heretic? I hope this is an attempt at humor.

[ QUOTE ]
for weeks now you can't read the news without running into the story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well great! Now don't go around convincing people they are powerless.

[ QUOTE ]
does this mean i don't care? no. does this mean i'm not going to [censored] myself over and refuse to buy a playstation 3 or whatever if it's a product i want? that's exactly what it means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, a playstation 3 doesn't exactly have an equivalent does it? As for music, camera's, stereos, etc there are tons of ways to boycott without [censored] yourself.

Sorry if my post was a little unorganized. It's 5AM after all and I need sleep.

[scrub]

I'm skirting the retarded OOT rules here, but I'm interested to see how Party et al. deal with this situation. This ought to have created at least temporary open season for bots, like it did for WoW cheaters.

scrub

I don't understand the detractors in this thread. Having hidden spyware that allows open remote access into your system is a big deal. Some of us have tens or hundreds of thousands in online banks that we regularly access on these computers. Inserting a music CD should not install hidden backdoors on otherwise secure systems and leave an open door for hackers.

The way to discourage this crap is to generate a lot of noise, embarassing publicity and expensive recalls. "Boycott Sony" campaigns are a good start. News like this gets around the industry, and in future some exec looking for a quick fix will think twice before trying to install a rootkit.

Thanks for posting Flynn.

[CORed]

You decide to be ethical and pay Sony's ridiculous price for the music instead of illegally downloading it. They thank you by trashing your computer. Also, the hoops they make you jump through to get the uninstall program are unreal.

[CORed]

There are already at least two class action suits against them. Of course the way these things usually come out is that the lawyers get $100 million and the people whose computers got trashed get $20 each. But it will still cost Sony a bundle if they lose or settle.

[Matt Flynn]

[ QUOTE ]
i think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face here

[/ QUOTE ]

Astroglide,

I understand your reasoning. Both positions strike me as rational.

I am worried about worldwide corporate hegemony. At some size X, corporations get to rewrite many of the laws in their favor. At the top of those corporations are still highly fallable people, many of whom demonstrate megalomaniac tendencies and a lack of empathy for others in this man's opinion. I am most concerned about toxins in the environment (the real ones like organic mercury, not the tree-hugger ones), loss of privacy, and people wasting my time. Time and a body are all we get: I value those assets very highly.

I do not want those corporations controlling my privacy or invading my private life or wasting my time. If I could, I would ban most of the information tracking and trafficking that goes on. A boycott of Sony in toto sends the message that messing with my privacy and my property has consequences. Posting on this message board helps to magnify my statement - likely not enough to tickle the beast, but perhaps so. I want these companies to think long and hard before blithely attacking me. Anyone who, for their own gain, slips malware on my computer (and it IS malware - just the increased vulnerability to hacking is enough - if someone passed out keys to my house would it seem innocuous?) attacks ME. At the least, it wastes my time looking for it and removing it.

If I owned Sony stock I would sell it for the same reasons. I vote with my wallet. If Sony came out with something spectacular, it's a simple decision of utility vs anger.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
And from what I read, the program wasnt even a rootkit per se.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you read was BS. It's a rootkit.

[Matt Flynn]

It is a powerful argument to steal music, isn't it?

[Matt Flynn]

The StarForce problem is worse. I just bumped your post.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And from what I read, the program wasnt even a rootkit per se.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you read was BS. It's a rootkit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It could just be my misunderstanding, since I read the links that Matt posted. My understanding of what a rootkit was designed to hide the presence of a cracker who has obtained root privileges in a comprimised system. I do agree that the way this DRM software works has similar effects. Its just semantics really. I fully agree that is a [censored] up thins for Sony to do.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a powerful argument to steal music, isn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Why do you think we have DRM now? Because of people stealing music. Companies have a right to protect their profits. This implementation of DRM obviously has a host of issues but the answer isnt stealing.

[IggyWH]

I don't know if I read it here or elsewhere, but I remember a couple of weeks ago where people discovered that color printers leave a trace of very small yellow dots on everything, so small they're near impossible to see unless you know where to look for them.

They are in fact the printers serial number so if something illegal is done with that printer (namely counterfeitting), it can be traced back to that printer.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
do you think this order came from the ceo?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think somebody pretty high in management (possibly VP level) said, "I want a copy protection system that can't be removed." . Somebody farther down the food chain hired Three Stooges Software to implement this, and they came up with this abomination. While I wouldn't boycott Denny's because some idiot assistant manager in Bumfuck, Kentucky threw a black guy out of the restaraunt for no reason other than that he was black, I don't think the two cases are comparable. Also, Sony's response to this is telling. They have not made an uninstaller publicly available: You have to send two emails, and accept ActiveX controls from their website to get the uninstaller. They have not recalled the infected CD's, nor offered to refund or replace on request. They have tried to spin it as not really being that bad.
So, while the initial decision to put the root kit copy protection on their CD's may or may not have been a mistake by a contractor or a lower level employee, their response when it became public has shown them to be unethical and irresponsible. Yes, making it right would be expensive for them, but I hope, failing to do so will be even more expensive.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a powerful argument to steal music, isn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is always i-tunes. You can just download the music. Again, there is a reasonable alternative to almost any product when performing a boycott.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a powerful argument to steal music, isn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to get on my soapbox here. I think the notion of intellectual poperty is a useful one. How to maintain it in the face of computer technology is a tricky problem and one I haven't really thought up a solution to. However, the way we are currently going ain't it. The DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection technology, without regard to whether you are doing so for illegal purposes. This pretty much renders the notion of "fair use" moot. Now, the law doesn't define what is and isn't "fair use" of copyrighted content, the publisher does. If the TV networks and manufacturers get together and implement technology to prevent you from recording a football game for later viewing, and you find a way to defeat it, you are breaking the law regardless of the fact that it is perfectly legal to do so otherwise. If Sony or another CD pulisher decides to make it impossible for you to copy a song to your MP3 player or IPOD, you are breaking the law to circumvent that technology.

Sony, and other publishers of copy-protected content, are basicly saying to their paying customers, "we don't trust you, so we're going to restrict your ability to copy our content for legitimate purposes". Sony has takem it a step further by compromising the reliability and security of your computer to do so.

The record companies and movie companies are lobbying heavily to get increasingly intrusive and draconian legislation passed to protect an obsolete business model. Audio CD's as a means of delivering content are really pretty well obsolete now. DVD's, etc. will be soon for movies as bandwidth and storage costs go down. This has several implications. There is less need for mass appeal for content. Internet distribution makes it possible for artists to sell directly to the public, and the costs of production are low enough for content with a small market to be profitable. This scares the hell out of the media giants. Instead of trying to adapt, or accept that their business is obsolete, and invest their money in a viable business, they are doing the equivalent of harness makers in 1915 lobbying for legislation requiring you to hitch horses to the front of your car. They are making deals with computer hardware and software to restrict the ability of computers to copy files. So far, most people seem to be accepting this. The best case scenario would be for consumers to wake up to the fact that they are being screwed and refuse to buy this crap. I'm not sure the Sony flop is going to be enough, but it's a good start.

In the meantime, don't buy any more buggy whips.

OTOH, as oil gets scarcer, maybe buggy whips will be useful again.

[astroglide]

i'm not suggesting that boycotts, even individual ones, aren't fantastic and powerful tools to have in one's arsenal. when i consider such things, i compare my effects to their effects. as matt wisely said, "it's a decision of utility vs anger." of course it can often rate to hurt the boycotter more than the boycottee in many instances. the score is settled on principle, and that's what makes it worth it.

all i was saying was that i think it's reasonable to target sony's audio cd division on principle and leave the rest alone. sony audio cds and sony digital cameras, for example, are going to be such totally separate divisions that they may as well be considered separate companies. the other divisions know about the problem, the other divisions likely had absolutely nothing to do with the problem, and with as much crap as the other divisions make it could tip the scales to the point where the anger/principle doesn't even things out. this, of course, depends on what a person buys and how mad they are.

of course there are going to be alternatives to their general products, especially on rabidly competitive things like digital cameras. what was implied was a strict boycott, not a 'if i'm near the edge i'll buy something that isn't sony' thing. sony pictures releases all kinds of major movies/dvds. can't go see da vinci code, memoirs of a geisha, or (close to your heart) the sequel to underworld. sony could make some sort of revolutionary development like advanced fuel cell batteries, paper-thin cheap microdisplays, or whatever. if it came to that, i'd feel like i was "giving up" if i had declared a boycott and ended up buying anyway. an "i'll avoid sony as much as possible" stance instead of a "2 years: NO SONY" stance makes a lot more sense to me because of stuff like that. they do so much, and 2 years is so long when it comes to technological advancement.

personally i decided to avoid sony's cds, and i buy cds pretty regularly. i've also raised my sensitivity meter against them on issues that might concern rights management/fair use. when it comes to buying a ps3, though, it won't be a concern of mine unless sony is using its adoption to do something like trying to brute force blu-ray movies into the hd dvd standard. in this way i make a statement, and still leave myself in a position where i'm not preventing myself from getting a great product if they make one and it's not related or harmful. i understand if people still want to 'kick it up a notch' and full-on boycott, but i think it's easy to miss how disconnected large company divisions are and how many products a company like sony makes.

to cored, look at some of my links in the post i made last night. they are replacing them in stores, there are refund/replacement program (complete with no-drm mp3 versions) for victims, etc.

[bugstud]

scary stuff. wonder if anyone else has done anything similar, or will write a better one.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is a powerful argument to steal music, isn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to get on my soapbox here. I think the notion of intellectual poperty is a useful one. How to maintain it in the face of computer technology is a tricky problem and one I haven't really thought up a solution to. However, the way we are currently going ain't it. The DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection technology, without regard to whether you are doing so for illegal purposes. This pretty much renders the notion of "fair use" moot. Now, the law doesn't define what is and isn't "fair use" of copyrighted content, the publisher does. If the TV networks and manufacturers get together and implement technology to prevent you from recording a football game for later viewing, and you find a way to defeat it, you are breaking the law regardless of the fact that it is perfectly legal to do so otherwise. If Sony or another CD pulisher decides to make it impossible for you to copy a song to your MP3 player or IPOD, you are breaking the law to circumvent that technology.

Sony, and other publishers of copy-protected content, are basicly saying to their paying customers, "we don't trust you, so we're going to restrict your ability to copy our content for legitimate purposes". Sony has takem it a step further by compromising the reliability and security of your computer to do so.

The record companies and movie companies are lobbying heavily to get increasingly intrusive and draconian legislation passed to protect an obsolete business model. Audio CD's as a means of delivering content are really pretty well obsolete now. DVD's, etc. will be soon for movies as bandwidth and storage costs go down. This has several implications. There is less need for mass appeal for content. Internet distribution makes it possible for artists to sell directly to the public, and the costs of production are low enough for content with a small market to be profitable. This scares the hell out of the media giants. Instead of trying to adapt, or accept that their business is obsolete, and invest their money in a viable business, they are doing the equivalent of harness makers in 1915 lobbying for legislation requiring you to hitch horses to the front of your car. They are making deals with computer hardware and software to restrict the ability of computers to copy files. So far, most people seem to be accepting this. The best case scenario would be for consumers to wake up to the fact that they are being screwed and refuse to buy this crap. I'm not sure the Sony flop is going to be enough, but it's a good start.

In the meantime, don't buy any more buggy whips.

OTOH, as oil gets scarcer, maybe buggy whips will be useful again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post.

I feel the idea of a Sony boycott is a particularly good one because of all the publicity. For the consumer, this is a very large issue that goes well beyond what one company has done. It most certainly extends to the idea of whether companies being allowed to install what are essentially hacks to your computer should be allowed in the first place. Consumers rarely get anything done against the concerted power of the recording industry, et al., because they have not only no money or organization in comparison, but no central rallying point, or one that that requires more familiarity with a problem than most consumers will have or care to develop.

The problem Sony has created is transparently wrong and visible. People of all ages buy music and movies. They also buy all manner of Sony products that play media, as well as the media themselves. This is a problem anyone can identify with, and everyone should.

This makes it a perfect issue to take a stand regarding. Whether it's by boycotting some or all of Sony's products, or just spreading the word about this crummy scheme Sony unapologetically cooked up and stuck up its customers' poop chutes, this is a good issue and a good time to say to Sony, and through example, all other companies -- No. Don't do this. There WILL be negative consequences that may indeed outweigh whatever perceived good you feel you are doing by invading the privacy of your consumers and endangering their equipment to boot. While I don't believe, as Astro implies, that you will be screwing yourself as a consumer or causing some sort of disastrous harm to Sony, either, by a boycott or by not letting this issue drop, I do believe that a shakier than expected quarter or two or three is the least a company deserves that sets out to indiscriminately invade and harm the property of its consumers.

Frankly, it seems beyond question to this consumer that Sony should know better. I don't mind at all being one very small anonymous data point, or human being as they used to call them, who helps make sure they do. And I think it's vital that other companies see such responses, because there are other companies besides Sony doing similar things, and I'm sure many would like to do so or are in the process of developing similar intrusive and damaging products to cash in on the piracy paranoia at the expense of unsuspecting consumers. It's too late to nip that in the bud, but if it could even be slowed down a bit, then at least we've done some small part to exercise our voices as citizens. Whether here on a bulletin board, or in the stores, with the absence of our cash where it would have been. And, perhaps, its presence in the coffers of competitors who have not given us similar reasons for concern about our privacy and the proper functioning of equipment that belongs to US, not some company that doesn't give a damn about its customers and tries to effectively appropriate it.

[Blarg]

Another one that I saw today:

Sony rootkit with some particulars (http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2159)

Here's an interesting bit of it:

[ QUOTE ]
MediaJam installs a rootkit called Aries.sys, which is misnamed as ‘Network Control Manager’ to reduce the chances that you will spot it running on your PC. Presumably Aries.sys is digitally signed by Microsoft, however Microsoft, First 4 Internet and Sony BMG are reluctant to either confirm or deny this. Because Aries is a rootkit it is installed at a very low system level which renders it invisible to anti-spyware software. More worryingly the rootkit is used to hide any code that starts with the characters $sys$, which allows Sony BMG to hide software within Windows to prevent its CD contents from being ripped.

[/ QUOTE ]

[astroglide]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051121/tc_nm/sony_texas_dc

now the state of texas is trying to sue sony for $100,000 per violation

http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2005_11.php#004192

the eff has launched the suit that they were considering

eff says that they now have a total of 6 class-action lawsuits against them (not counting texas)

[Freakin]

#577451 +(3143)- [X]

<DmncAtrny> I will write on a huge cement block "BY ACCEPTING THIS BRICK THROUGH YOUR WINDOW, YOU ACCEPT IT AS IS AND AGREE TO MY DISCLAIMER OF ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS WELL AS DISCLAIMERS OF ALL LIABILITY, DIRECT, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL, THAT MAY ARISE FROM THE INSTALLATION OF THIS BRICK INTO YOUR BUILDING."
<DmncAtrny> And then hurl it through the window of a Sony officer
<DmncAtrny> and run like hell

[astroglide]

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/victory.html

the man who discovered/exposed the nature of the rootkit claims victory

http://www.sonybmg.com/

it's all over the front page

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/victory.html

the man who discovered/exposed the nature of the rootkit claims victory

http://www.sonybmg.com/

it's all over the front page

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it looks like Sony is finally doing the right thing (mostly anyway) after being repeatedly kicked in the nuts.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
when it comes to buying a ps3, though, it won't be a concern of mine unless sony is using its adoption to do something like trying to brute force blu-ray movies into the hd dvd standard

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=8954

Speaking with FORTUNE magazine, Stringer confirmed that the PS3 will initially be sold at a significant loss in order to drive the Blu-Ray next-generation DVD standard out into the marketplace.

damn i'm good. and this is the sort of thing that people likely won't notice or cry about, unlike the drm scandal.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking with FORTUNE magazine, Stringer confirmed that the PS3 will initially be sold at a significant loss in order to drive the Blu-Ray next-generation DVD standard out into the marketplace.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why should people cry about this?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
all i was saying was that i think it's reasonable to target sony's audio cd division on principle and leave the rest alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with holding this belief, as good as it sounds, is in order to be effective in a lot of situations you will have to "fvck yourself". This is exactly what you are trying to avoid. It is rare that one defeats a ruthless villian without being ruthless himself.

That being said, I understand and think your line is reasonable. Based on historical events, I just think there are more effective and less self damaging routes. If I do perform an indirect boycott I will email the general company to inform them what I'm doing.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps if people didn't insist on stealing music en masse, this stuff wouldn't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]
And ironically, the people stealing music en masse are uneffected by the issue, while those who buy cd's are.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking with FORTUNE magazine, Stringer confirmed that the PS3 will initially be sold at a significant loss in order to drive the Blu-Ray next-generation DVD standard out into the marketplace.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why should people cry about this?

[/ QUOTE ]

do you care about being able to fast forward through the commercials on a dvd you actually bought?

do you care about the ability for your media center system/dvr to store copies of your movies in the future for easy access?

do you care about how much storage space a dvd has so that more and/or higher quality stuff can fit on it?

do you want to be able to watch hd movies on any hd television, not just those with copy-protected dvi/hdmi inputs?

all of this stuff is determined by the standard. look at vhs and dvd. these things last a long time. if a bad one is selected, we're stuck with it.

people don't buy media players when they first come out, they wait for it to get cheap/popular. people buy consoles the minute they're released. if sony is able to make blu-ray the hd dvd disc standard by default as a result of this, the consumers lose. the standard should be ratified on its features and price, not by the ability to appear in a home for 'free'. the hd-dvd and blu-ray standards should have to fight so that they compromise and add the stuff people want.

patents are a big factor for industry too. the reason you have to buy a separate accessory to enable dvd functionality on modern consoles is because the manufacturers would have to pay a royalty for every system sold. sounds like an industry problem, but it affects consumers in a very real way. it would be a standard feature if it weren't for the patents, which are a part of the dvd standard and could be a part of the hd dvd standard depending on what happens.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with holding this belief, as good as it sounds, is in order to be effective in a lot of situations you will have to "fvck yourself".

[/ QUOTE ]

the point wasn't to be effective. i suggested it as a feelgood/philosophical boycott that was less potentially self-crippling. the whole reason i came into this thread was because i thought that an 'effective' boycott (one to push sony to take some sort of action) was unnecessary.

[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what you are trying to avoid. It is rare that one defeats a ruthless villian without being ruthless himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not trying to avoid it because it's painful, i'm trying to avoid it because it's unnecessary. it was obvious to me that sony was going to get screwed 6 ways from sunday by the press. if that wasn't the case, i would have been happy to do something more drastic.