OT: did i collude?

[bawcerelli]

You guys consider this collusion? it's edited to the relevant parts.

Table '15321412 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 4: I´maCRIMINAL (7310 in chips)
Seat 6: gentleman55 (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: Angel713 (4710 in chips)
I´maCRIMINAL: posts the ante 50
gentleman55: posts the ante 50
Angel713: posts the ante 50
I´maCRIMINAL: posts small blind 300
gentleman55: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gentleman55 [Qd Ks]
Angel713: folds
gentleman55 said, "i got a good hand"
I´maCRIMINAL: folds
gentleman55 collected 750 from pot
gentleman55: shows [Qd Ks] (high card King)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 750 | Rake 0
Seat 4: I´maCRIMINAL (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: gentleman55 (big blind) collected (750)
Seat 9: Angel713 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

few hands later:


vel IX (300/600) - 2005/11/19 - 09:26:41 (ET)
Table '15321412 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 4: I´maCRIMINAL (2475 in chips)
Seat 6: gentleman55 (1705 in chips)
Seat 9: Angel713 (9320 in chips)
09:26:41 I´maCRIMINAL: posts the ante 50
09:26:41 gentleman55: posts the ante 50
09:26:41 Angel713: posts the ante 50
09:26:41 Moving Bets to Pot
09:26:41 I´maCRIMINAL: posts small blind 300
09:26:41 gentleman55: posts big blind 600
09:26:41 *** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to I´maCRIMINAL [Js Ad]
09:26:41
Dealt to gentleman55 [Tc As]
09:26:42 I´maCRIMINAL said, "phu"
09:26:44 Angel713: folds
09:26:45 gentleman55 said, "oh sweet"
09:26:47 gentleman55 said, "i got a good hand"
09:26:49 gentleman55 said, "u better fold"
09:26:50 gentleman55 said, "ace"
09:26:51 gentleman55 said, "ten"
09:26:56 gentleman55 said, "i'l lshow"
09:26:58 gentleman55 said, "i'll show"
09:26:59 I´maCRIMINAL said, "Aj"
09:27:01 gentleman55 said, "i promise"
09:27:01 I´maCRIMINAL: raises 1825 to 2425 and is all-in
09:27:03 gentleman55: calls 1055 and is all-in
09:27:03 Moving Bets to Pot
09:27:07 gentleman55 said, "lol"
09:27:07 *** FLOP *** [4c Qc 9h]
09:27:09 gentleman55 said, "nh"
09:27:13 *** TURN *** [4c Qc 9h] [5h]
09:27:15 I´maCRIMINAL said, "lol"
09:27:16 gentleman55 said, "ten"
09:27:16 *** RIVER *** [4c Qc 9h 5h] [2h]
09:27:18 gentleman55 said, "aw rigged"
09:27:19 *** SHOW DOWN ***
I´maCRIMINAL: shows [Js Ad] (high card Ace)
09:27:19 gentleman55: shows [Tc As] (high card Ace - lower kicker)
09:27:20 gentleman55 said, "gg"
09:27:22 I´maCRIMINAL collected 3460 from pot
09:27:23 I´maCRIMINAL said, "gg"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3460 | Rake 0
Board [4c Qc 9h 5h 2h]
Seat 4: I´maCRIMINAL (small blind) showed [Js Ad] and won (3460) with
high
card Ace
Seat 6: gentleman55 (big blind) showed [Tc As] and lost with high card
Ace

I wouldn't consider it collusion, exactly, since you're apparently not planning on getting anything for it. It's still awfully bad poker etiquette (at a minimum) to reveal your hole cards during play (don't know if it's necessarily against the rules for a specific site, and don't especially feel like checking).

I'd probably be annoyed at the first hand chatter, too, even though in that case you didn't actually reveal your hand. Not annoyed enough to complain to anyone, though (and I assume you're posting this because someone at the table whined at some point).

[wiggs73]

I don't really get it. You sound as if you want hands worse than AT to fold. Why?

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really get it. You sound as if you want hands worse than AT to fold. Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause i don't feel like getting sucked out on against a 40/60 when a fold by him doubles my stack from 1000 to 1900.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
It's still awfully bad poker etiquette (at a minimum) to reveal your hole cards during play (

[/ QUOTE ]

even if it's heads up? and besides how in the world do they know if i'm telling the truth or not? i could have 27o and be lying my ass of to get a fold.

[DeathbySuckout]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't really get it. You sound as if you want hands worse than AT to fold. Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause i don't feel like getting sucked out on against a 40/60 when a fold by him doubles my stack from 1000 to 1900.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to learn about poker.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
Cause i don't feel like getting sucked out on against a 40/60 when a fold by him doubles my stack from 1000 to 1900.

[/ QUOTE ]

This type of thinking is a pretty big leak, IMO.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't really get it. You sound as if you want hands worse than AT to fold. Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause i don't feel like getting sucked out on against a 40/60 when a fold by him doubles my stack from 1000 to 1900.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to learn about poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he folds my stack goes to 1900, his to 2100. he's button next hand, but afterwards he'll be facing the BB and if i don't push into him big stack might. it just seems to me if he folds a weaker hand say Q5o instead of pushing, i have better equity in the tourney, based on current stacks and position. maybe i'm wrong though.

You clearly colluded because you worked with this other guy to hurt the other people in the tourny. They lose EV because of the fact that you guys aren't playing against each other (or are playing against each other less frequently than normal).

[DeathbySuckout]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe i'm wrong though.


[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing you're wrong about making decisions based on being afraid of suckouts. Don't do it.

[DeathbySuckout]

[ QUOTE ]
You clearly colluded because you worked with this other guy to hurt the other people in the tourny. They lose EV because of the fact that you guys aren't playing against each other (or are playing against each other less frequently than normal).

[/ QUOTE ]

There are only 3 people left. The only dicussion about their hands was made after the other guy folded. Therefore, no collusion.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's still awfully bad poker etiquette (at a minimum) to reveal your hole cards during play (

[/ QUOTE ]

even if it's heads up? and besides how in the world do they know if i'm telling the truth or not? i could have 27o and be lying my ass of to get a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I looked it up. (Stars TOS)

3.3 COLLUSION. Collusion between players by sharing hole cards or by other methods is stricly forbidden.

Trouble is, they don't expressly define collusion in the TOS, though they do say this elsewhere:

Collusion is a form of cheating in which two or more players signal their holdings or otherwise form a cheating partnership to the detriment of the other players at the same table

I think there's an argument to made that you're not colluding because you're not (intentionally) working with the other player to the detriment of others in the game, and it would be difficult for the big stack to actually be losing equity in this particular hand. If someone ratted you out to Stars support, however, I'd expect a warning (probably polite) from them, though.

[runner4life7]

whether you are colluding or not, you are still retarded. You deserved to lose that hand when you tell him he has you dominated.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
whether you are colluding or not, you are still retarded. You deserved to lose that hand when you tell him he has you dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this sort of banter helpful/useful to anyone? Hopefully the mods lock it before it turns into another flame war because God knows we already have enough of these on the forum.

To OP:
1. It's generally frowned upon to tell other players your holdings in any situation.
2. You shouldn't at all mind getting your chips in as a slight favorite late in SNGs.

That is all. Thead can die now.

[Double Down]

If collusion is sharing your holecards, then this is not colluding. Telling someone what you have is not sharing your holecards because there's no possible way that your opponent could know whether or not you're telling the truth.

This actually isn't true.

If you have what you say you have, then you are breaking the rules. If you are lying, then you are okay.

[runner4life7]

because he needs to realize that what he is doing is stupid. Telling him nicely you shouldnt do this doesnt get the point across that i want to.

[Uppercut]

You need to stop discussing your hole cards during the hand right now. Really.

[FlyWf]

The other guy folding has jack [censored] to do with whether this is collusion.

I would be incensed if I was the big stack in the 2nd hand. OP cheated and I hope the big stack reported him.

[ZeeJustin]

In tournament play, you are never allowed to say what you have (or expose your hole cards in live tourneys) because it indirectly hurts other players in the tournament. What you did was a form of cheating.