What is the "standard play" here

ok, villian is to my right. he just sat down, but i think i've played against him before and he is a thinking player.

short handed
hero is UTG with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif

preflop:
hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls

flop: 4 SB
5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB checks, hero bets, calls

Turn: 3BB
7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
check, hero bets, BB raises, hero calls

River: 7BB
3/images/graemlins/club.gif
BB checks, hero...

What was the river card?

[shadow29]

uh bet/call?

looks like spades to me.

[Weatherhead03]

Bet/call the river. Looks like a flush draw to me.

[J. Stew]

I'd raise the turn, call a cap, and call the river if he capped the turn. His check on the river smells like eights. I'd bet the river in your situation, but raise the turn first as he could be c/ring the turn with a lot of hands you beat.

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
uh bet/call?

looks like spades to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd bet here, too, but because I'm hoping he didn't have a flush draw, but rather a worse king or some other pair (maybe paired up a seven on the turn?). If he just had a flush draw, he's folding, if the read is right that he's a thinking player.

[ QUOTE ]
uh bet/call?

looks like spades to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

If this is a "thinking player" as you stated, he realizes that with a large range of your pf raising hands (even UTG) 1) you miss that flop completely (i.e. AQ, AJ, AT), or 2)you have an underpair to the K (i.e. QQ to mid-pair).

When he check-raises that turn, he probably has 1)a 5, 2) a weaker K, or 3)a diamond draw. There's also the remote possibility that he's getting tricky with a smaller pocket pair, but I'm not really worried about that. At this point, I'm putting him on a a weaker K and 3betting. If he calls the 3bet and checks the river, I'm betting it (even if it's a third spade, I think you're ahead enough of the time to bet it). If he caps the turn and bets out on the river, I'd probably just call.


I don't think he checks the river with a K or 5 and probably not a pocket pair either. Most players aren't going for a second check-raise on that river. After seeing the river check, I think he was trying to take the pot down on the turn on a flush draw, hoping that you hadn't hit the board and would release something such as AQ or maybe even a medium pocket pair.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise the turn, call a cap, and call the river if he capped the turn. His check on the river smells like eights. I'd bet the river in your situation, but raise the turn first as he could be c/ring the turn with a lot of hands you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO the results are affecting your opinions here duder. After we're check-raised on the turn we really can't 3-bet unless he's a complete LAG.

At these limits the turn raise often means slowplayed something. Sometimes people try to checkraise you twice. I just check through to get more info on what villain is playing, take a note and wait for the next opportunity to extract more bets next time.

[irishpint]

3bet the turn. a good thinking BB doesn't call many UTG raises w/ a 5. But still, we see something other than a 5 (a weaker K, a 7, say 88 or 99 or a draw) way more often.

[BriPlay]

bet and call a raise. he might have weaker king, underpair, more likely busted draw.

What could a 'thinking player' have here?
called raise from BB, c/r on turn.
A. if he thinks you have a king: AA, KK, KTs KJs KQs, K7s?
B. If he thinks you dont have king: any pair over 7s.. maybe more?

Brian
I'd put him on fl draw, maybe king with weak suited kicker that picked up fl drw.

[ChuckyB]

A player with the third 5 doesn't check the river.

Grunch. New to SH.

Hero bets and folds to a raise, if he's a reasonable player. If he's a complete LAG, I'd probably call a raise.

But since he's a "thinking player" I doubt that he'd go for a check/raise twice in a row. That's stupid unless, of course, he thinks you think it's stupid. Reasonable players just bet out their trip 5's, not get greedy. I'd expect a missed flush draw or perhaps a weaker K or other pair.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I'd 3-bet the turn. We have a good hand HU. If he caps, then it's time to re-evaluate and worry.

[Maurader1]

is bet/fold too weak? I don't think any worse hands are c/r-ing here...

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, villian is to my right. he just sat down, but i think i've played against him before and he is a thinking player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the term "thinking player". It doesn't accurately describe anything. Is villain tricky/aggressive? Does he make plays based on the board? Does he read hands well and makes good folds?

Against an aggressive player, I check behind. Most likely, he check-raise bluffed (or semi-bluffed) the turn and you called, leaving him with junk on the river. If he's got a lot of nerve, he will check-raise the river and you'll be unhappy about calling.

Against a tricky player, he may be trying a double check-raise with a 5. Since you called his turn raise, he's thinking you've got enough of a hand that you would want to value bet the river, then he's going to have you crushed if you pay him off, which you may or may not do.

Against a hand-reading player, I check behind as well. He's probably going to fold because otherwise he would have bet so that you could not check behind. The only hand that would gain from this play is a medium pair, AND he would need a read that says you will autobet the river when he checks to you, but will not call a bet.

The types of players against whom I would value bet are those who are straight-forward loose passive. There's also a benefit to seeing what he shows down here, because turn check-raises are very meaningful and intentional plays which can give you lots of insight into villain's playing style.