QJo multiway

[krimson]

UTG is a bit LAG'y, over aggressive, but certainly not a maniac. Rest of the table is a bit loose, slightly TAG'ish person on my right.

Please comment on all streeets, mainly interested in whether this is a pre-flop error, and what do on this river.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (11.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero ??

Final Pot: 17.20 BB

[Entity]

Fold preflop. This is a really bad call IMO.

I'd raise the river and fold to a 3-bet.

Rob

[toss]

I just can't agree with PF, I fold.

I'd raise the river and call a 3-bet. Its painfully clear to villain that you have trip Js if you raise so you should probably worry if villain 3-bets.

[toss]

Its true we're probably boned if we get 3-bet but then the pot size would keep me from folding. Its looks like it kept Hero from folding.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG is a bit LAG'y, over aggressive, but certainly not a maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is becoming my standard description of Party 5/10 players.

[bobhalford]

This is definitely a preflop error. I personally would not call pf even if I had QJ suited. KTs, KJs, KQo, JTs, etc. are all folds in this situation. I think some people would play KQs if there were 2 cold callers in front of them, but I fold this too. I don't like playing these hands because you are often dominated when you flop a good hand. Then you have to pay to the river to find out that you were toast all along.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise the river and fold to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like good advice to me, but what I'd do instead is raise the river and call a 3-bet.

I've been seeing a lot of bluff-raising lately (though, granted, mostly on the flop and turn -- and I can't claim I've been seeing much river bluff 3-betting). I don't think I'd be able to make the laydown if I got 3-bet.

Which is a reason to consider just calling, I suppose.

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. This is a really bad call IMO.

I'd raise the river and fold to a 3-bet.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you fold if he 3 bets it? you are getting huge pot odd. What's wrong with just calling, you have to be very sure of yourself to drop trips in this situation.

[Nick C]

I've been seeing enough UTG raises along the lines of A8o lately to make me think I need to start thinking about expanding my preflop range versus a raise.

That said, QJo seems like a stretch to me. I would fold preflop.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. This is a really bad call IMO.

I'd raise the river and fold to a 3-bet.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you fold if he 3 bets it? you are getting huge pot odd. What's wrong with just calling, you have to be very sure of yourself to drop trips in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against his range of hands, we're about a 60% favorite. That's a great edge for us to raise as long as we feel comfortable that he's only 3-betting TT,99,KdQd, and better Jacks. When you raise the river you're telling him what your hand is, and if he doesn't care, in general, you shouldn't be calling. Of course, LAG has different meanings to different people and there are some LAGs who I'd call a 3-bet in a heartbeat.

Rob

[gh9801]

Fold preflop.

I'd probably raise the river, puke and call a threebet because the pot is big

[ErrantNight]

I'd rather be s00ted or a position or two back... at least the hijack...

but I don't think it's a major error, if an error at all.

The flop raise is fine, but I might wait for the turn here.

Given villain's ready 3-bet on the flop, I'm not sure about a turn raise, but it sure looks tempting. I'm raising the river pretty much all the time, however.