AK and big pots

[JJNJustin]

Frequently in a low limit game I find myself three betting AK in an attempt to thin the field. I know that my AK is huge compared to most other player's raising standards in my game, and since flat calling the raise will result in more stragglers behind me I usually end up 3-betting if I'm going to play the hand at all.

However, this often ends up in a capped pot with 5 or 6 players, the pot now with 24 sb. Very often I miss the flop and continue with the hand, considering the pot odds.
Often, I get to the river holding AK high and am faced with a bet from one of the original raisers.

Given the size of the pot and the desparate hope that the other player is betting a worse hand, I usually call the river bet, especially if no-one else does.

Much more often than not I see a hand like JJ, QQ, KK, or AA than a hand like AQ. More aggressive imaginative players may even make a value bet with a small pocket pair, making me feel especially stupid. After the hand is over I feel like an idiot for playing the hand, having lost many bets.

Losing a pot like this almost always leads me to play the hand more passively pre-flop the next time around (i.e. just calling a raise) and just check fold or if I dont flop or hit an Ace or king on the turn.

The second line leads to less bets lost, and lets me get away from the hand if the flop comes bad. The first line of play very often gets me in trouble. It opens up the pot to be capped and this usually ties me to the hand to the river card, unless the action is fierce on the flop. Calling the cap pre-flop and then folding on the flop seems to me to always be a mistake. How can you fold AK when you just put four small bets in the pot?

This being said, I hate to take a passive stance with a hand like AK, yet the more I play the hand, the more I think this is the correct play. Losing the maximum amount of bets everytime AK misses the board seems to me a terrible line. Playing the hand passively seems weak tight, but defensively much better. However, problems can arise from this line. Allowing small pocket pairs and hands like KQ to get to the flop can result in you making a payoff hand, even if you DO manage to hit.
What are your thoughts?

-J

[Nick Royale]

Raise preflop and work on improving your postflop skills if necessary.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

Just because youre uncomfortable posflop doesn't make your preflop action incorrect. Even in the pots you are talking about always calling on the turn is a losing play, and the river even worse. If simply calling preflop allows you to get away from making errors and compounding them postflop then you may be better off taking a line that's slightly worse earlier. Though there is the obvious trade off that you will not gain experience in the sutiations where you were having trouble and/or possibly develop bad habits.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
After the hand is over I feel like an idiot for playing the hand, having lost many bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your brain/emotion is getting in the way here. There is some good reading somewhere on loss-aversion maybe someone can provide a link again.

Capping preflop with AK multi-way is fine. You will win more than your share. This does not mean you will win more than half though. Even if you win 30% you should be able to pull a long-term profit.

One of the difficulties postflop is that when your hand hits it may be more obvious than when others hit. Just all a part of the game. What do your PT numbers show for AK?

[justdanutz]

3 bets before the flop is fine... but like you said the mentality of some players is to come into the BIG pot with any hand at this point. If you miss the flop and one of the pre-flop raiser bets out, you're probably up against an pair or a set.

Your best option might be to check-raise from early position on the flop to gain information. Then lead out on the turn.

This is a much better use of your chips then checking and calling to the river.

1. Your opponent might fold
2. If you're raised on the turn, you know you're behind.

[SackUp]

Your approach to this situation is where your problem lies.

You are raising and reraising AK preflop b/c of your equity edge against the rest of the field. You will often have the best hand preflop and need to exploit that edge. Build a pot when you have an equity edge is a good thing. This is more money for you to win!

The bigger problem I see is in your post flop approach. Just b/c you put in 3-4 bets preflop and a bet or so on the flop does not mean you have to finish to the river because it is "just one bet." You need to look at the dynamics of the board and player(s) you are up against. This is where you are losing your money. You cannot continue calling down when your AK does not hit. This is not to say that calling down is not the correct play at times, but you need to be selective.

Check out this post: QTip's recent post on calling down with AK or folding on the Turn (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=smallholdem&Number=408586 2&page=0&fpart=all)

This has some interesting discussion in it. There are probably better examples out there as you are concerned with the big multiway hands. Do a search.

Anyhow, I think your adjustment needs to be post flop and your reading.

This whole "It is better to be defensive" and "I'll lose less money" mentality are surely not the answer. If you aren't playing AK hard, what are you playing? Don't turn into a weak-tight fish /images/graemlins/smile.gif Stay on the good side!