Whats your default lines here?

[MrEngenic]

I play 2/4 right now if that changes anything. What is your default line with these hands and why? What does it take for you to deviate?

1)
Preflop: Hero has 99 in EP.
Hero raises, TAG 3bets, all fold

Flop: 853r

2)
Preflop: Hero has AJ in EP
Hero raises, TAG 3bets, all fold

Flop: J83r

What if it's against an unknown?

I'm very unsure of these situations. I've tried all sorts of things. WA/WB, CR bet bet, bet/3bet bet bet, call call call.

[Piiop]

I'd checkraise Hand 1. You're not in a WA/WB situation here. You'd like to charge him to draw to overs and possibly incorrectly fold. If he 3bets, I'd call and maybe call down maybe fold the turn, maybe call turn fold river - it depends on the player.

I'd check/call, check/call, bet hand 2 unless I improve. This is a WA/WB situation.

[shark6]

I'd check/raise the flop for information aginast TAG's. A TAG isn't likely to 3-bet you with just overcards.

Against an unknown, I'd probably do the same.

Resason being, if someone raises at all PF, it's more likely they have unpaired overcards than high pocket pairs. I think the check/raise approach loses the least when your behind and gains the most when ahead because they'll call your check/raise and turn bet with just overcards.

[shark6]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check/call, check/call, bet hand 2 unless I improve. This is a WA/WB situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you assume you're ahead in hand 1 and not hand 2? I'm not sure it is a WA/WB hand often enough to take this line. It's really quite likely you have him reverse dominated now (ie he has AK, AQ).

[CCovington]

If he is reverse dominated than is he not in a WA/WB situation? (villian is drawing to 3 outs)

I would CR the flop on both btw, and assume it would probably be correct to fold to a reraise? (Assuming villian is typical TAG) I might lean toward calling down hand 2 even if reraised

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you assume you're ahead in hand 1 and not hand 2? I'm not sure it is a WA/WB hand often enough to take this line. It's really quite likely you have him reverse dominated now (ie he has AK, AQ).

[/ QUOTE ]

In hand 1, we're not ever way ahead. When he has AK/AQ, he has 6 outs. We want him to fold those hands.

In hand 2, we're either way ahead because we have him reverse dominated or he has an underpair, or we're way behind to an overpair or set. The wa/wb line maximizes wins and minimizes losses. We don't want him to fold AK/AQ so we don't need to bet into him. If he bets AK on the flop and turn and calls a river bet, that's great for us. If we c/r the flop and he folds the turn - thats bad for us.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd check/call, check/call, bet hand 2 unless I improve. This is a WA/WB situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you assume you're ahead in hand 1 and not hand 2? I'm not sure it is a WA/WB hand often enough to take this line. It's really quite likely you have him reverse dominated now (ie he has AK, AQ).

[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly why this is a WA/WB situation. He either has AA-JJ, or we have him reverse dominated.

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
I play 2/4 right now if that changes anything. What is your default line with these hands and why? What does it take for you to deviate?

1)
Preflop: Hero has 99 in EP.
Hero raises, TAG 3bets, all fold

Flop: 853r

2)
Preflop: Hero has AJ in EP
Hero raises, TAG 3bets, all fold

Flop: J83r

What if it's against an unknown?

I'm very unsure of these situations. I've tried all sorts of things. WA/WB, CR bet bet, bet/3bet bet bet, call call call.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. C/r flop, B/f turn
2. Against TAG I'd c/call flop, c/call turn, donk river.

[MrEngenic]

What about bet/3bet with 99? Will that put more pressure on him to fold AK on the turn or will it just result in a bigger loss against a higher pocket?

It is an easy fold if raised on the turn or river with either line (CR vs bet/3bet), right?

[shark6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd check/call, check/call, bet hand 2 unless I improve. This is a WA/WB situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you assume you're ahead in hand 1 and not hand 2? I'm not sure it is a WA/WB hand often enough to take this line. It's really quite likely you have him reverse dominated now (ie he has AK, AQ).

[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly why this is a WA/WB situation. He either has AA-JJ, or we have him reverse dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, both cases are a WA/WB situation.

1. If he has AA-JJ you'll get raised on the turn instead and you're out just as much as if you called down.

2. Since you didn't cap PF, villian will rule out AA-QQ, AKs for you. And therefore, the villian may go for a flop 3-bet free card play figuring he has 6 clean outs plus any backdoor draw outs and end up bluffing you out of the pot.

3. The times you get out cheaper by check/raising and folding to a 3-bet or turn raise won't offset the times:

A. You get pushed off the best hand by a flop 3-bet.
B. He draws out on you.
C. He raises you on the turn instead of flop 3-betting with AA-QQ.
D. He folds a worse hand without puting in a bet on each round.

[goofball]

1. Standard line is c/r bet bet, calling a lot of the time if he pops me somewhere unless it's basically impossible for him to have a worse hand. I mix it up though too, sometimes I betcall call call, sometimes I checkcall checkcall bet. I don't think I'd put 3bets in on a street against most TAGs.

2. Depends on the player. If he can be depended on to bet the turn with a lot of hands then I like c/c c/r. If I don't do that I almost always checkraise the flop and go from there. Call call call is a god awful line for either of these hands.

WA/WB is bad in both spots. In hand 1 if you're ahead your opponent likely had 6 or 3 outs, if you're behind you have 2 outs. So it's somewhat to marignally head/way behind. In hand 2 your opponent rarely has more than 3 outs if iyou're ahead, you almost always have 5 outs if behind. Don't overuse a WA/WB line anyway, frequently they suck.