Taxes make me angry...

[KaneKungFu123]

I work very hard for my money and giving 35% of it away to other people really doesnt seem fair. I also dont live in the United States. So I am paying taxes to a country inwhich I dont reside and I benefit zero from giving them my money. They also have no clear plan to lower taxes since they keep starting wars and spending more then the budget. I dont support their wars, which is where all of the money seems to wind up (well actually the money goes to the companies providing the war, right?) For instance, one day in Iraq costs more then an entire education year for USA. So americans will remain ignorant and continue to need my money.

If I dont pay my taxes then i go to jail.

Now Republicans are supposed to be anti-tax, yet they keep spending money in buckets and giving contracts to the companies they used to run who overcharge the government millions of dollars, then go to court and it becomes sickly obvious that its crooked, and then walk away fine in the end??

i really dont want to be a citizen of any country. i dont see why its nessecary. if i want to eat food i pay someone for it. if i want to enter a country i pay for a visa. if i want to ride to point b from point a i pay someone. why do i ahve to be a ciitzen of anywhere?

[Khern]

There was one famous guy that renounced his citizenship and declared himself a citizen of the world. Wish I could remember who. Einstien? Erdos?

I'm sure others have done this. I doubt it would be easy.

[Jdanz]

cause you use roads and international treaties and stuff that precvents pirates from boarding you. Taxes suck, but you are using things the you don't produce or pay for whether you think so or not. I'd suggest renouncing your citizenship and applying for citizenship somewhere else that has a less tax heavy structure (i want to say you're in thialand or somewhere in south east asia, which i'd guess has fairly low taxes. Or apply for citizenship specifically somewhere that doesn't tax gambling, and you won't have to worry about high income taxes, as you income won't be considered "income". Maybe somewhere in Europe? i dunno.

[theweatherman]

[ QUOTE ]


There was one famous guy that renounced his citizenship and declared himself a citizen of the world. Wish I could remember who. Einstien? Erdos?

I'm sure others have done this. I doubt it would be easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

socrates did this. so did Emerson, but he doesnt count cus he got bailed out and got to live on his friends property.

[Peter666]

You can create your own pontoon Island in international waters and be free to make your own laws and do what you want. I think there is a guy off the coast of Florida doing this.

If it is a really cool pontoon Island, bring babes and I will build one beside it. Then we will create a colony of anarcho-capitalist pontoon Islands focusing on pure hedonistic pleasure.

It might be better than making a movie.

[SunOfBeach]

'twas john nash. see avatar on left!

PS it didn't work. long story short, every other country was afraid he was a spy and wouldnt let him live there without a passport of any kind. almost convinced luxembourg, but it didn't take...

[Khern]

Ah, knew it was from one of those math bio's I'd read.

Thanks,
John

[The Don]

[ QUOTE ]
why do i ahve to be a ciitzen of anywhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Government and politics almost seem like a big game to me. A bunch of mental captives, revered by the masses for whatever reason, tampering with people's lives at their own discretion. I am amazed that it has been over 200 years since the idea of popular sovereignty was introduced to Western civilization (with the exception of certain Greek societies), and yet nobody actually realizes/cares that they are not truly free under the system.

[BluffTHIS!]

As I said in the other tax thread you started, you can always move to Brazil and live with one of the tribes in the rain forest. No taxes and lots of topless women. Taxes are just another form of rake and that's the only way to escape it.

Or maybe Ray Zee would let you live in the woods out back. You could do chores for the privilege of hunting and gathering your own food and using some of his trees to build a hut. Since he won't pay you any cash you won't actually owe taxes and will fall off the grid. And you can play him headsup no limit for acorns.

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]
Since he won't pay you any cash you won't actually owe taxes ...

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds nice, but you are incorrect. (one of the neat little things we learn in law school...)

[chisness]

if you're a dual citizen in one country that requires gambling income to be paid for and the other doesn't, what's the deal?

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since he won't pay you any cash you won't actually owe taxes ...

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds nice, but you are incorrect. (one of the neat little things we learn in law school...)

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is the line on the 1099 for hunting & gathering rights?

You can't escape it. "We contend here, however, that the model of government is akin, not to the business firm, but to the criminal organization, and indeed that the State is the organization of robbery systematized and writ large." Murray Rothbard

[nicky g]

Why do you have to pay US taxes if you don't live in the US? Are you sure you do?

[Jdanz]

yes, you do if you're a us citizen

[OtisTheMarsupial]

If you are really paying the IRS 35% of your income, you're doing your taxes wrong. Even if you took NO deductions, you'd still only pay 35% on the PORTION of your income that is in the 35% tax bracket, not the entire income.

Cry me a river and then go read the code.

[blackize]

www.fairtax.org (http://www.fairtax.org) also check out the book Fairtax as it has even more information.

[lehighguy]

There's no escape unless you renounce citizenship.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are really paying the IRS 35% of your income, you're doing your taxes wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

The IRS is not the only organization that collects taxes.

[lehighguy]

I paid 50% in taxes last week and I only earn 55k/year. Go NYC.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I paid 50% in taxes last week and I only earn 55k/year. Go NYC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious.

Is 50% your marginal tax rate (including state and local taxes) or did you in fact pay $27,500 on taxes?

To be fair you can include both sides of your social security taxes but you need to add the employer match to your income.

Not sure how you would calculate sales taxes.

~ Rick

[Indiana]

Welcome to the Republican party Kane. I hate taxes too.

Indy

[The Don]

[ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the Republican party Kane. I hate taxes too.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet you insist on pointless wars which are paid for by the taxpayers.

[Indiana]

You will someday understand the value of the Iraq war. The war is a recent expense but its not the reason that we pay high taxes, the liberal social programs are.

Indy

[The Don]

[ QUOTE ]
You will someday understand the value of the Iraq war. The war is a recent expense but its not the reason that we pay high taxes, the liberal social programs are.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are. At least Democrats admit that they are not opposed to high taxes. Republicans act as if they are, then engage in frivilous spending which will inherently lead to higher taxes in the future. This doesn't matter because the politicians initiating this spending will not be in office by then. Of course, they could monetize this debt instead of passing it on to the taxpayers but this is arguably worse because of the subsequent inflation.

If you really hate taxes, the libertarian party is clearly the best option among (decently) popular American political parties.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are really paying the IRS 35% of your income, you're doing your taxes wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

The IRS is not the only organization that collects taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still, I'd like to see his math. I doubt he really pays 35% of his income on taxes. And if he does, he needs a better CPA.

[Indiana]

Actually Kane, you may not live in the US and directly need government services, but how do the fish get to work Monday morning to keep your bkroll strong if they got no roads to drive on?

Indy

[mackthefork]

I feel for you, we are all the property of the system, liberty is an illusion, they can do anything they like to us, limited only by what they can manipulate other people into agreeing to.

Mack

[slickpoppa]

If you don't like paying taxes, just renounce your citizenship. There are some South American banana republics with very low income taxes that you could probably become citizen of.

[Indiana]

liberty is not an illusion. Not with the right to bear what u see below:
http://www.aubreyturner.org/armory/pics/glock_left.jpg

[Jedster]

Paying federal taxes makes me angry too. I would be less angry if I felt like I had more of a say in what my taxes were spent on, but mostly it just goes to wars and oil companies and other things I oppose. I continue to pay the taxes because it would be illegal not to but I sure as hell am not happy about it.

I feel better about paying local taxes because I see where those things are going and I tend to support how they are used: schools, roads, hospitals, etc.

[Indiana]

Ok who stole my handgun pic and replaced it with that dog pic?

Indy

[Jedster]

I'll see you on December 24 baby.

[ QUOTE ]
Ok who stole my handgun pic and replaced it with that dog pic?

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

He did. (http://www.aubreyturner.org/index.php?/member/1/)

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
liberty is not an illusion. Not with the right to bear what u see below:
http://www.aubreyturner.org/armory/pics/glock_left.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh the pic is broke, my guess is you are refering to your constitutional right to wear short sleeved t-shirts? I have no complaint with this, I just don't want that [censored] here.

Mack

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are really paying the IRS 35% of your income, you're doing your taxes wrong. Even if you took NO deductions, you'd still only pay 35% on the PORTION of your income that is in the 35% tax bracket, not the entire income.

Cry me a river and then go read the code.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive read these instructions up, down and sideways and I dont see anything about this. I plan to use a CPA, but still can you explain more.

It says if you are over 100K you need to use the tax computation on page 77

if over $326,450 then x.35 -$19,530.

it doesnt speak anywhere about portions, but I sure as hell hope you are right!

[KaneKungFu123]

i downloaded a tax software and it is also not using portions and taxing me at the 35% rate for all income??

very confused now, please help /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

ive downloaded a second program and it is also taxing me at .35 -19450 for all income, not using portions, although i see what you are getting at. very interested now!!

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
There's no escape unless you renounce citizenship.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't right. My wife is a US citizen and she doesn't pay US taxes (she lives in the UK) on her income over here, just on things like interest she gets paid on a US bank account she still has. She did have to pay some US taxes on her UK-earned income for a while when she first moved here, but not after a fairly short period of time.

Given that you have to pay taxes wherever you are legally resident, wouldn't this mean all US citizens living abroad would have to pay taxes twice? Noone would ever live abroad if that were the case.

[nicky g]

Presumably this is why she doesn't have to pay:

IRS: foreign earned income (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html)

Foreign-earned income of up to US$80,000 is exempt if you live abroad.

Seems bizarre to me that otherwise (and above that) you have to pay.

[KaneKungFu123]

550,000(.35)-19,500 = 173,000 = 31.4%??

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
My wife is a US citizen

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you two play colonist and crown? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My wife is a US citizen

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you two play colonist and crown? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

he probably makes her dress up as martha washington and say "give me my stamp tax King!"

[mackthefork]

That's funny, lol.

Mack

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are really paying the IRS 35% of your income, you're doing your taxes wrong. Even if you took NO deductions, you'd still only pay 35% on the PORTION of your income that is in the 35% tax bracket, not the entire income.

Cry me a river and then go read the code.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive read these instructions up, down and sideways and I dont see anything about this. I plan to use a CPA, but still can you explain more.

It says if you are over 100K you need to use the tax computation on page 77

if over $326,450 then x.35 -$19,530.

it doesnt speak anywhere about portions, but I sure as hell hope you are right!

[/ QUOTE ]


scroll to the last page of this irs link:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

If your taxable is over:.........The tax is:

326,450..........................94,727.50 + 35% of the amount over 326,450
--------------------------------------------------------

that $94,727 includes taxing the portion between 150,150 and 326,450
at 33%, the portion between 71,950 and 150,150 at 28% ... all the way down to the first $7,300 at 10%.

[mosta]

IRS regulation section 1.61-2(d)(1) "Compensation paid other than in cash--in general" Except as otherwise provided...if services are paid for in property, the fair market value of the property taken in payment must be included in income as compensation. If services are paid for in exchange for other services, the fair market value of such other services taken in payment must be included in income as compensation. If the services are rendered at a stipulated price, such price will be presumed to be the fair market value of the compensation received in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

[ QUOTE ]



Quote:
Since he won't pay you any cash you won't actually owe taxes ...



Quote: sounds nice, but you are incorrect. (one of the neat little things we learn in law school...)



quote: Where is the line on the 1099 for hunting & gathering rights?

[/ QUOTE ]

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]
Presumably this is why she doesn't have to pay:

IRS: foreign earned income (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html)

Foreign-earned income of up to US$80,000 is exempt if you live abroad.

Seems bizarre to me that otherwise (and above that) you have to pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are three different ways to get foreign income out from under US taxes to a limited degree. which is most advantageous depends on your income, other deductions etc etc.:

section 911(a)(1) foreign income exclusion. up to $80,000 of your income, with tests for residence or presence abroad.

section 27 foreign tax credit. (not in my statutory supplement.)

section 164(a)(3) "state and local, and foreign, income, war profits, and excess profits taxes." this is just a regular itemized deduction. it tends to be the least advantageous.

[mosta]

having written these three replies, I should now disclaim: I am not a tax professional, a tax expert, or a lawyer. I can not and will not advise you on your taxes. I can only refer you to my limited incomplete and scattered exposure to portions of tax law.

[mosta]

have you looked into opening a swiss bank account? they really exist. they'll turn people in for terrorism or drug dealing. but they consider tax evasion a political crime and I think they may be bound by swiss law not to reveal anything about you.

[sweetjazz]

Do you build every highway you drive on? Do you want to live in a world where there is no protection for your possessions outside of yourself and everyone else knew that?

I am not saying that the U.S. tax policy is good or even anything less than stupid and unfair in many ways. But taxes are a necessary part of a functioning society.