Bush shows his true colors

[cardcounter0]

As if there were any doubt:

"A $60 billion bill the Senate passed to continue expiring tax cuts and shelter 14 million families from higher taxes faces a White House veto threat because it also includes a hefty tax increase for oil companies."

Lower the budget? Reduce taxes? Not if it hurts the world record profits of the oil companies. hahahahaha

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
As if there were any doubt:

"A $60 billion bill the Senate passed to continue expiring tax cuts and shelter 14 million families from higher taxes faces a White House veto threat because it also includes a hefty tax increase for oil companies."

Lower the budget? Reduce taxes? Not if it hurts the world record profits of the oil companies. hahahahaha

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you post here?

[cardcounter0]

I guess just general disappointment that a board, that one would expect to be populated with people of higher intelligence than your average Party Poker chat room, has such an incredible high number of totally blind Bush cheerleaders. When in doubt, Support Bush no matter how wrong, and grasp at any straw to justify his lies.

[jt1]

I'm so very often disappointed by the lack of objectivity many Conservatives suffer from. At least this guy reminds me that many Liberals have the same deficit.

PS: I'm assuming he's well aware of the arguments against his position and just doesn't want to consider them.

[The Don]

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I'm so very often disappointed by the lack of objectivity many Conservatives suffer from. At least this guy reminds me that many Liberals have the same deficit.

PS: I'm assuming he's well aware of the arguments against his position and just doesn't want to consider them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps because both ideologies are inherently contradictory...

[jt1]

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Perhaps because both ideologies are inherently contradictory...

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It's been said that intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing or contradictory ideas at the same time.

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It's been said that intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing or contradictory ideas at the same time.

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By "hold," do you mean believe? Or simply see a logic in both ideas?

I'm serious, because I frequently find something I can agree with in two arguments. I have a hard time swallowing the whole pill. (maybe because I don't drink the Kool-Aid?)

I get called a "middle-of-the-roader," and I've been told, "The only thing in the middle of the road is a yellow line." BS! It pisses me off, big time.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess just general disappointment that a board, that one would expect to be populated with people of higher intelligence than your average Party Poker chat room, has such an incredible high number of totally blind Bush cheerleaders. When in doubt, Support Bush no matter how wrong, and grasp at any straw to justify his lies.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't. They are just more active posters. Whenever there's a poll about this they're shown to be a minority.

[whiskeytown]

That's a Republican for you - never answer a post when a personal attack or asking someone to shut up will do instead. You pulled that trick from Bill O'Reilly, no doubt.

When in doubt, the Republicans will always choose big business over the American People. Then they can spend and lie their way thru the next election with all that corporate money that will be funneled to their re-election, not to mention the stuff under the table.

When a Republican screws over the little guy, it barely qualifies for news anymore - sort of like corruption in College Sports - you get desensitized to it.

I barely notice the hand in my pocket or the cameras in my living room anymore -

RB

[JimBob2232]

While I am not a bush cheerleader, and know nothing more on this issue that what was posted above, i offer my opinion.

It seems reasonable to state that an increse in taxes on oil companies will cause the amount they pay in taxes to increase, and to accomodate the decreased revenue stream, oil prices will rise.

My guess is that THIS is the logic that is being applied. What is so wrong with the companies earning a profit? why is profit such a bad word?

On a side note: does anyone here know what gives congress the right to investigate oil companies as they have? Its not a monopoly...where does this power of control over oil companies stem from?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
While I am not a bush cheerleader, and know nothing more on this issue that what was posted above, i offer my opinion.

It seems reasonable to state that an increse in taxes on oil companies will cause the amount they pay in taxes to increase, and to accomodate the decreased revenue stream, oil prices will rise.

My guess is that THIS is the logic that is being applied. What is so wrong with the companies earning a profit? why is profit such a bad word?

On a side note: does anyone here know what gives congress the right to investigate oil companies as they have? Its not a monopoly...where does this power of control over oil companies stem from?

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...where does this power of control over oil companies stem from? (http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html)

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
a hefty tax increase for oil companies."


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Do you think this would be reflected in the price of gasoline? DO you think that would be a good or bad thing? If the oil companies face a large tax increase will this increase or decrease a lower income worker's disposable income?

[cardcounter0]

Congrats! The first post in the thread to actually address the subject. In answer to your question, YES, higher taxes on oil companies would get reflected in the price of gasoline, and would have an effect on the lower income worker's disposable income.

But look at what they are doing to avoid this:

"continue expiring tax cuts and shelter 14 million families from higher taxes"

Those expiring tax cuts were Bush's original tax cuts. Remember? Those tax cuts that the right claimed cured all the evil in world. The tax cuts that were responsible for all the good that has ever occurred in the economy ever since.

Now, if it means hurting the oil companies, I guess those tax cuts weren't so special after all, let them expire.

"shelter 14 million families from higher taxes", what did the right say about "trickle down"? I guess reducing taxes on 14 million families really doesn't help the economy overall if it means some oil companies make less money.

So what is it? Does reducing taxes and "trickle down" help the economy? Where Bush's tax cuts good? Or is making sure Big Oil continues to turn record profits America's Number 1 Priority?

Bush made his choice. Does the right agree that they were wrong all this time? His tax cuts weren't good, let them expire, and reducing taxes on a large part of the middle class is bad?

[cardcounter0]

So you support rolling back the tax cuts and increasing taxes on the middle class in the name of preserving the worship of oil company profits?

A true capitalist will sell you the rope to hang himself.

[JimBob2232]

Well thank you sir. The constitution. What was I thinking. Thank you so much. you really cleared this issue up for me. I have never read a so well thought out researched reply before on a message board. You sir deserve a medal of honor for helping out your fellow citizens. The constitution..if only i had ever heard of it before. Its amazing what you can find out by just posing a question.

sarcasm off...now back on. As far as I can tell, the only business called out in the constitution is the press. Perhaps you would like to read the document you linked too before posting it as an answer to every question asked...

Okay now sarcasm off. I really would like to know why the government feels it can regulate the oil industry moreso than other industries.


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So you support rolling back the tax cuts and increasing taxes on the middle class in the name of preserving the worship of oil company profits?

A true capitalist will sell you the rope to hang himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I have never seen a tax increase that I like. The government is too big, and spends WAY too much money. Until the point comes where I feel that an increase in my taxes will make things better, I am against every tax increase.

That doesnt just apply to my wallet, it applies to all companies and tax paying orgainizations in the country (Oil included). If we want to make oil a monopoly, lets do it. Lets stop pussyfooting around the issue. Like it or not, oil is a consumer product just like televisions or microwaves. And if you start taxing them, their (here comes that bad word again) "Profits" start going down. Decreased profits mean one of two things. 1) Prices go up to accomodate for the tax increase, or 2) Companies go out of business.

We need oil. We rely on oil. If we are not going to allow a legal monopoly, we need to let market forces act freely.

You want to talk about profit taking? The state of New York collects 33 cents per gallon of gas. The federal government? 18 cents a gallon. That is 51 cents per gallon that is going to the government. How much do oil companies make? Somewhere around 9-10 cents per gallon.

So tell me this..why is it okay for the government to make 5 times the amount of money oil companies make off a gallon of oil? The government does nothing for it. The oil company is providing an essential service, taking big risks, making big investments and capital improvements. Why are we complaining about the "Excessive oil profits" when the government makes 5 times as much! AHH my head is going to explode.

[cardcounter0]

Okay, so we will increase the taxes on 14 million middle class families, and we will eliminate Bush's tax cuts, so that the poor oil companies don't have to pay any more taxes on their every-quarter-a-new-record profits.

Why? Because taxes are so bad, and let's make sure the oil companies are the first to not pay them. Then maybe we can get Bush to roll back his Hiway Pork Bill (no veto there), or his Homeland Security Dept. boondoggle (no veto there), or maybe his Iraq nation building billion dollar project, or not giving out more of those no-bid contracts to Halliburton, or ...

[JimBob2232]

Im not quite sure why we are getting into this argument...I think my position is quite clear. I said im not a bush appologist, and I stick by that.

Taxes are too high on the middle class. Taxes are too high on the "rich" (however you define rich...its a good catchall term, but meaningless without numbers), taxes are too high on corporations, and yes, that includes oil companies.

On the flip side though, we are spending too much on education, TSA, medicare, and a whole host of other issues. We are not using our defense and homeland security money efficiently. Is bush to blame for this? In large part yes. But we also have a congress who will not stand up for themselves against a president in their own party, and frankly thats sickening. That doesnt make me a bush appologist. That doenst make me a bad republican. That makes me a true conservative. I wish the leaders we have elected over the past 10 years would take the blinders off and start cutting taxes and cutting spending.

But, why is it okay to tax oil companies more than paper companies or telecomunications companies? Isnt a dollar earned a dollar earned?

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Congrats! The first post in the thread to actually address the subject. In answer to your question, YES, higher taxes on oil companies would get reflected in the price of gasoline, and would have an effect on the lower income worker's disposable income.

But look at what they are doing to avoid this:

"continue expiring tax cuts and shelter 14 million families from higher taxes"

Those expiring tax cuts were Bush's original tax cuts. Remember? Those tax cuts that the right claimed cured all the evil in world. The tax cuts that were responsible for all the good that has ever occurred in the economy ever since.

Now, if it means hurting the oil companies, I guess those tax cuts weren't so special after all, let them expire.

"shelter 14 million families from higher taxes", what did the right say about "trickle down"? I guess reducing taxes on 14 million families really doesn't help the economy overall if it means some oil companies make less money.

So what is it? Does reducing taxes and "trickle down" help the economy? Where Bush's tax cuts good? Or is making sure Big Oil continues to turn record profits America's Number 1 Priority?

Bush made his choice. Does the right agree that they were wrong all this time? His tax cuts weren't good, let them expire, and reducing taxes on a large part of the middle class is bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this will the last chance to renew the expiring tax cuts. I don't really know if taxing oil or taxing people directly will do more harm to the economy. Neither one of them are good and I don't know why anyone would be for either of those propositions.

[cardcounter0]

Yep. I am against all taxes. And against all spending.
Sure.

I am also against cancer. And I am all for world peace.
Sounds good in theory.

But this is about choices. The spending is done, it won't go away. Now, do we tax oil company RECORD profits, or do we tax the individual some more?

Seems you want to tax all corporations equal, for instance, you mention the paper industry. Well, I'm not aware of the paper industry posting quarter after quarter of higher profits. I don't think the govt. has expended huge forces to defend the interests of the paper industry overseas.

Choose. Individuals or Record Oil Profits. Bush made his choice.

[Randy_Refeld]

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Choose. Individuals or Record Oil Profits. Bush made his choice.

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What's wrong with leaving taxes low and letting the tax base grow?


I wonder why more companies don't enter the oil market? It is almost like there is excessive regulation creating a de facto cartel amoung the oil companies.

[cardcounter0]

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What's wrong with leaving taxes low and letting the tax base grow?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing is wrong with it. But Bush is going to veto that idea because the Oil companies come out a little worse off.

[JimBob2232]

I cant really continue this discussion. There is more to every argument than Bush=Bad.

If democrats ever figure out that little peice of information, they can be dangerous. Come up with some original thoughts and real ideas and solutions to problems, then we (republicans and democrats) can have a real debate. But its hard to have a public discussion when everything uttered by one party is pegged to some silly catchphrase like "Bush loves oil". Its silly and childish, and frankly the reason Bush is in office today.

[Randy_Refeld]

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[ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with leaving taxes low and letting the tax base grow?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing is wrong with it. But Bush is going to veto that idea because the Oil companies come out a little worse off.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you support taxing oil companies so low income workers can't afford to buy CHristmas and birthday gifts for their children.

The bottom line is increasing taxes is bad for the economy. Everyone knows it, some people want to tax oil to get votes for "sticking to those rich bastards."

would increasing the taxes on oil result in a smaller or larger tax base? Perhaps oil companies should have to donate all profits.

Is there anything good that can come from raising oil taxes?

Perhaps you could set up two accoutns so i could ignore political crap and read waht you have to say in gambling forums.

[cardcounter0]

[ QUOTE ]
So you support taxing oil companies so low income workers can't afford to buy CHristmas and birthday gifts for their children.


[/ QUOTE ]

So you support taxing individuals directly so no one can afford to buy CHristmas and birthday gifts for their children.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
That's a Republican for you - never answer a post when a personal attack or asking someone to shut up will do instead. You pulled that trick from Bill O'Reilly, no doubt.

When in doubt, the Republicans will always choose big business over the American People. Then they can spend and lie their way thru the next election with all that corporate money that will be funneled to their re-election, not to mention the stuff under the table.

When a Republican screws over the little guy, it barely qualifies for news anymore - sort of like corruption in College Sports - you get desensitized to it.

I barely notice the hand in my pocket or the cameras in my living room anymore -

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

You should try posting when you arent high. I rarely make posts like the one I did in response to CC. It was a genuine question, since it seems that his only motive for posting here is to make snarky little jibes at people who dont agree with his political views.