Hand vs. the Kid with Green Hair [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Double Eagle

11-18-2005, 01:37 PM

Villain in this hand is ExitOnly from last night's 45k. I find these hands vs other 2+2ers quite interesting. How well/bad did we play it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t19865)
UTG+1 (t32581)
MP1 (t20365)
MP2 (t17080)
MP3 (t8950)
CO (t13125)
Button (t33875)
Hero (t16975)
BB (t5310)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t500, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1700) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero raises to t3000, BB folds, MP2 calls t2000.

Turn: (t7700) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (t7700) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t2500, Hero calls t2500.

Final Pot: t12700

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and fives).
MP2 has Qd Qs (two pair, queens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins t12700.

11-18-2005, 01:42 PM

I like preflop and the flop a lot. Your stack size seems good for slowplaying AA here. If you had slightly more or much less, I'd raise. Flop raise is pretty obvious.

Why no turn bet?

adanthar

11-18-2005, 01:43 PM

This is an odd line, but I like it anyway until the part where you didn't CR the river.

flawless_victory

11-18-2005, 01:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How well/bad did we play it?

[/ QUOTE ]
his play is fine.

your play is quite awful.

Rizen

11-18-2005, 01:52 PM

Not sure what to say... I hate the whole hand personally. I think I raise PF rather than giving the BB 3:1 on his call. That may kill some of your action here, but I'd rather play HU here than let the BB tag along cheaply.

This flop is perfect for you though, I would smooth call rather than raise here and plan on CRing the turn. I wouldn't be afraid of a free card here for sure.

On the river, you need to either lead or CR, check calling here seems super weak/tight. I can't think of any hand that a reasonable player would raise with here except 88 that you're behind.

-Rizen

DONTUSETHIS

11-18-2005, 01:54 PM

I think like the prflop play by you, but I would not check raise on the flop. I would call the flop and lead or CR the turn. If you only call the flop then you can get him to call a turn bet or if you check raise him there you would have gotten more of his chips. By check-raising him on the flop you made him slow down too much.

Sam T.

11-18-2005, 01:59 PM

I can see smooth calling if you are in the BB and already HU, but don't much like it here. Re-pop pre-flop. (I love saying that.)

Flop: Very nice. The raise will often be construed as a "Where am I?" bet, and is less unnerving than a call.

Turn: What was your plan here if he bets? (Just curious.)

River: Raise it up! t4k feels about right.

Double Eagle

11-18-2005, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of any hand that a reasonable player would raise with here except 88 that you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many reasonable players have green hair?

Jurollo

11-18-2005, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of any hand that a reasonable player would raise with here except 88 that you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many reasonable players have green hair?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know of at least one.
~Justin

Sam T.

11-18-2005, 02:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of any hand that a reasonable player would raise with here except 88 that you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many reasonable players have green hair?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know of at least one.
~Justin

[/ QUOTE ]

Fossilman's is naturally green, but he dyes it.

Jurollo

11-18-2005, 02:46 PM

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2070/ivey3ym.jpg

Need I say more?
~Justin

gobboboy

11-18-2005, 04:01 PM

Coolest mod ever.

(All the rest of you, please don't ban me. /images/graemlins/frown.gif)

EDIT: Oh, I should probably post about the hand.

I like smoothcalling AA in this spot actually. You're OOP and rr'ing OOP isn't great when you WANT action. Getting the bb to tag along too is good.

I like your flop raise, you don't want the bb in there anymore since the flop is somewhat coordinated and you're 99% sure you have the best hand. But when you raise the flop, you have to bet the turn. With an overpair he might raise the turn (Though probably not his weak/tight ass. /images/graemlins/wink.gif) when the board pairs, then you can get it all in. The check on the river when you checked the turn was terrible. If you do check, check/raise that river every time.

11-18-2005, 04:06 PM

i would definitely reraise preflop, so i agree with rizen. but i disagree that the flop is good. the kind of hands i look to get in raised pots with, this flop hit me pretty good. 58s 67s things like that. i will never slow play AA again preflop, unless i am guaranteed going heads up with a player i have a great read on. with that said, i like the slowdown on the flop, checking, bc this flop is one someone will want to pick up. like the reraise, but i would bet out on the turn again. i bet as much as possible with AA.

durron597

11-18-2005, 04:16 PM

I would reraise preflop because I want to be able to reraise other hands here and get a fold - if I smoothcall with AA then Exit knows I don't have AA when I resteal.

gobboboy

11-18-2005, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would reraise preflop because I want to be able to reraise other hands here and get a fold - if I smoothcall with AA then Exit knows I don't have AA when I resteal.

[/ QUOTE ]

But when you smoothcall he may think you have AA.

Dave D

11-18-2005, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is ExitOnly from last night's 45k. I find these hands vs other 2+2ers quite interesting. How well/bad did we play it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t19865)
UTG+1 (t32581)
MP1 (t20365)
MP2 (t17080)
MP3 (t8950)
CO (t13125)
Button (t33875)
Hero (t16975)
BB (t5310)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t500, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1700) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero raises to t3000, BB folds, MP2 calls t2000.

Turn: (t7700) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (t7700) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t2500, Hero calls t2500.

Final Pot: t12700

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and fives).
MP2 has Qd Qs (two pair, queens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins t12700. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I push the turn. I don't want him drawing, and the pot is really big so winning it right there is really great too. I really don't like the check, you just give wheel draws a chance to draw.

edit: the fact that you know it's exit, and you know he's a good player, means he probably raised with something good from that position PF. That makes me think a push on the turn is gonna get called a lot of the time, and you woulda gotten paid. No way anyone folds that turn with what he had. I don't know why you got that scared.

EverettKings

11-18-2005, 04:31 PM

Preflop is fine, flop is fine, but I'd just fire another big barrel on the turn, say 5k, and then again on the river. Bad cards can come and you want to pump this pot full. Your bets are strong so they look like they're protecting a vulnerable hand, and you'll get action from overpairs. I mean imagine if the river comes a Q or K or A..... it'll be hard for lower pairs to pay you off much and they'll check the river behind a lot. I also don't hate your turn/river line if you checkraise the river a substantial amount, to 8k or so.

Weird spot for exit. I would have value bet more on the river if I were him, since I'd have you pegged on pretty much exactly 99-TT right here.

Everett

Yuv

11-18-2005, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is ExitOnly from last night's 45k. I find these hands vs other 2+2ers quite interesting. How well/bad did we play it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t19865)
UTG+1 (t32581)
MP1 (t20365)
MP2 (t17080)
MP3 (t8950)
CO (t13125)
Button (t33875)
Hero (t16975)
BB (t5310)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t500, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1700) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero raises to t3000, BB folds, MP2 calls t2000.

Turn: (t7700) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (t7700) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t2500, Hero calls t2500.

Final Pot: t12700

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and fives).
MP2 has Qd Qs (two pair, queens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins t12700. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yuck.
I can think of 15 different lines where the buttom line would have been : "Outcome: Hero wins t33000".

citanul

11-18-2005, 04:38 PM

how close to the least he could lose did he lose?

how close to the least you could win did you win?

Melchiades

11-18-2005, 04:41 PM

Pretty much sums it up.

mlagoo

11-18-2005, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is ExitOnly from last night's 45k. I find these hands vs other 2+2ers quite interesting. How well/bad did we play it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t19865)
UTG+1 (t32581)
MP1 (t20365)
MP2 (t17080)
MP3 (t8950)
CO (t13125)
Button (t33875)
Hero (t16975)
BB (t5310)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t500, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1700) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero raises to t3000, BB folds, MP2 calls t2000.

Turn: (t7700) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (t7700) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t2500, Hero calls t2500.

Final Pot: t12700

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and fives).
MP2 has Qd Qs (two pair, queens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins t12700. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I push the turn. I don't want him drawing, and the pot is really big so winning it right there is really great too. I really don't like the check, you just give wheel draws a chance to draw.

edit: the fact that you know it's exit, and you know he's a good player, means he probably raised with something good from that position PF. That makes me think a push on the turn is gonna get called a lot of the time, and you woulda gotten paid. No way anyone folds that turn with what he had. I don't know why you got that scared.

[/ QUOTE ]

wth? wheel draw? exit is playing a2 or a3 from that position?

there is no draw on this board, with the exception of a low card straight draw that has no relation to any hands exit is holding in this situation.

this hand was played super passively. if you are going to smoothcall preflop, either bet/3bet the flop so you can let him put you on 99-JJ and get all his/your chips in, or lead the turn for the same result. maybe you think you're losing AK-AQ, but I think they are putting barely any more chips in the pot anyway, and you are losing a ton of chips from hands like Exits (or even TT/JJ) that think they are ahead.

Hotrod0823

11-18-2005, 04:44 PM

I am not a big fan of smooth calling PF.

I like the flop raise.

I think I bet out 3-5k on the turn and I definently would be raising the river.

With this hand and this action I am looking for all Exit's chips /images/graemlins/cool.gif.

I betting this turn with a 3-5K will possibly entice Exit to come of the the top. From the action I think it is pretty clear you are facing an over pair or AK/AQ.

Dave D

11-18-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is ExitOnly from last night's 45k. I find these hands vs other 2+2ers quite interesting. How well/bad did we play it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t19865)
UTG+1 (t32581)
MP1 (t20365)
MP2 (t17080)
MP3 (t8950)
CO (t13125)
Button (t33875)
Hero (t16975)
BB (t5310)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t500, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1700) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero raises to t3000, BB folds, MP2 calls t2000.

Turn: (t7700) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (t7700) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t2500, Hero calls t2500.

Final Pot: t12700

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and fives).
MP2 has Qd Qs (two pair, queens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins t12700. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I push the turn. I don't want him drawing, and the pot is really big so winning it right there is really great too. I really don't like the check, you just give wheel draws a chance to draw.

edit: the fact that you know it's exit, and you know he's a good player, means he probably raised with something good from that position PF. That makes me think a push on the turn is gonna get called a lot of the time, and you woulda gotten paid. No way anyone folds that turn with what he had. I don't know why you got that scared.

[/ QUOTE ]

wth? wheel draw? exit is playing a2 or a3 from that position?

there is no draw on this board, with the exception of a low card straight draw that has no relation to any hands exit is holding in this situation.

this hand was played super passively. if you are going to smoothcall preflop, either bet/3bet the flop so you can let him put you on 99-JJ and get all his/your chips in, or lead the turn for the same result. maybe you think you're losing AK-AQ, but I think they are putting barely any more chips in the pot anyway, and you are losing a ton of chips from hands like Exits (or even TT/JJ) that think they are ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

On second thought you're right, I shouldn't be that scared of A3/A2 and low suited cards. I just hate giving free cards, and hate slow playing aces, ESPECIALLY with the preflop call. Maybe not a push then, but some sort of bet on the turn, if only for value.

11-18-2005, 06:29 PM

You really really really shouldn't have posted results here.

mlagoo

11-18-2005, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You really really really shouldn't have posted results here.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's probably true.

11-18-2005, 06:55 PM

Not sure why you didn't bet the turn there, given Ex's range, that 5 card was harmless and wouldn't have helped him at all.

I definitely would have raised his river bet, I can't see you being behind here.

Exitonly

11-18-2005, 07:07 PM

I was so confident in this hand, i even typed a little into the chat:

"YOU DONT WANT THIS KGB"
"YOU'RE SCARED OF THIS"

I most definitely was not expecting AA here. And i'm pretty sure you could have had my whole stack here

Benal

11-18-2005, 09:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And i'm pretty sure you could have had my whole stack here

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the first thing that came to mind when I saw the results, but OP played it much too passive.

Che

11-19-2005, 02:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A.
3 folds, MP2 raises to t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t500, BB calls t400.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exit: Standard.
DE: If BB was deeper and even remotely able to call loosely preflop and then play well postflop, I hate it. Given that he is relatively short and we have no read, it's OK as long as you don't overuse it. I would raise at least 2x as often as call, probably more.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (t1700) 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif, 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero raises to t3000, BB folds, MP2 calls t2000.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exit: Cont bet is standard. Call of check-raise is fine. Reraising would also be fine. Call probably better against decent players (which I thought DE was before I read this post /images/graemlins/tongue.gif).
DE: Leading the flop is much better IMHO. Downside is missing a cont bet equal to 1/17th current stack from KJo or similar junk. Upside is snapping off larger bet when exit bluff-raises plus stacking exit with KK-99/8x. 88/5x should stack DE regardless of DE's line (unless it gets all-in on flop and 5x folds, obviously) so these hands are basically irrelevant. Once you check, you can raise or check - lots of problems with either.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (t7700) 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exit: Assuming DE has made some loose calls in the blinds before, getting to showdown cheaply/inducing a bluff is probably reasonable for Exit.
DE: Exit has position on you and this is a scary board to play versus both blinds, so he's unlikely to voluntarily build a big pot with an inferior hand. Therefore, lead the turn and river and hope he either calls you down with TP/overpair or has an intense desire to bluff you.

[ QUOTE ]
River: (t7700) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t2500, Hero calls t2500.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exit: Looks fine, but I wonder what he would have done if you had raised.
DE: If your read is that he doesn't have a real hand or you would know it by now, then I guess checking again makes sense. Check-calling also makes sense if you put him solidly on either a monster or nothing. But, I don't see how you could make either read (especially the second one) in this case.

Given the turn check-check, I bet about 5000. That may lose some value on this specific hand (especially if exit is agg enough to autobet when checked to twice - which is really not all that agg), but I hate showing down AA after playing it this passively without taking down a monster pot as compensation for the negative impact it will have on my image. Image is way down on my list of factors to consider when making a fold/bet/raise decision, but I would have to consider it here.

All in all, I guess Exit's play is fine, but I really don't understand what you were doing, DE.

If you're going to underrepresent your hand preflop so that you can trap someone, you've got to actually pull the trigger on the trap at some point postflop. He'll obviously instafold when you spring the trap and he has nothing, but he will fall for the trap much more often than you end up trapping yourself so you have to follow through. I mean, you didn't really think 88/5x/4x/76 was more likely than KK-99/8x/77/66, did you?

I rate this as a very bad hand played by a very good player (and I still think that - it'll take more than this hand to change my read /images/graemlins/cool.gif).

Later,
Che

Double Eagle

11-19-2005, 03:51 AM

I knew instantly that I played this hand as bad as is humanly possible. As Che said there's nothing like setting a trap and then losing the nerve to spring it.

This thread is my pennance...