surge of stupid players

[oddjob]

is it just where i play, or has anyone else notice a surge of really really bad, stupid players? i'm not trying to be mean, but i've seen some of the dumbest poker things in my last few sessions, from a lot of players.

the players just seem to be getting worse and worse.

what do we have to thank for this, the WPT? Rounders? a combination of all of it? i would think that these players would want to come in a play good, but they are making the most obvious stupid moves.

[J.R.]

WPT is my vote. I don't know if they are "stupid" as much as they are green, being drawn to the tables by the buzz of watching (for the most part) no-limit being played on the WPT, and failling to understand that limit is a whole other game.

[thomastem]

Why complain? These shows/movies bring in fish. It is the same reason pros write their books, to have more people to feast on. I don't hear them complaining why should we?

[oddjob]

i have seen some really really stupid play as of late

a player mucks his nut straight for $1 more, after other player shows him same hand

a 3rd player sees the guys nut straight and calls knowing he can't win.

a player called to the river with 7 high

player mucks his top 2 pair, after seeing someone else's smaller 2 pair.

baffling. i know there are a lot of new players, but in the past, the new players i've played with have shown some sort of intelligence.

lately i've just been baffled

[ResidentParanoid]

We get to thank the almighty, who keeps making direct deposits into my bankroll.

[J.R.]

Sounds like its time to head up the canyon this weekend!

[oddjob]

not complaining. these guys are the ones feeding my bankroll. jus wondering if it's happening everywhere, or just where i'm playing.

[oddjob]

absolutely. i don't know about the mountain high casino (formerly the hyatt), but the lodge seems to be filled with them these days. when i'm not in a hand, i'm praying one of these guys wins the pot, so he can lose it to me.

good luck

[thomastem]

I've seen a ton of this on Party. 1 Table last week had 8 people to the flop and the betting was capped pre-flop! 5 to the showdown each round capped, lol. These folks were calling me chicken all night while I made money.

[Fitz]

[Fitz]

I play mostly 2/4 and 3/6 on Paradise, and I've noticed it there lately too. It's nice to see a little softer game once in a while.

Good luck all,

[andyfox]

[FeliciaLee]

Amazing!

Here are a few I've witnessed at the Trop:

1) LHE, player claims he knows how to play poker. He mucks his straight saying, "It doesn't count if they aren't all the same suit, right?" He was completely serious. I told him if he was waiting on a straight flush, he was going to be waiting a mighty long time. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif Then I brought him the hand ranking chart from the podium.

2) Stud 5/10, a player calls the river bet when he can't beat another player's board. NOT a raise, a call. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

I won't even go into detail about the things I've seen online in the past few weeks, but here is one outlandish example:

$11 SNG on Stars, game is NLHE. Two large pair on the board, the river brings a six. Another player, who has been checking along with me, bets right out enthusiastically when he sees the six. I call with my ace kicker. He can't understand why the pot was pushed to me instead of him, since he had a pair of sixes. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[oddjob]

it may be stupid but at least it's pointless

[richie]

I think it's the WPT. Gotta love it. And as someone else pointed out, I think they are confusing no-limit with limit hold'em. They see somebody bluff with nothing heads-up, and they think they can do it themselves. I've seen people playing any 2 cards on a regular basis at Party Poker, and even coldcalling with crap like Q4o, etc. I think many of them don't care to learn to play, they want to MAKE a play. More power to them, and I hope they keep watching the WPT. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[bernie]

play long enough and youll see guys who've played for many years do stupid moves like this.

not just beginners...

b

[David Steele]

It really seems true for this month online.
There is just an amazing influx of very bad players.

ideas:

1. WPT
2. Moneymaker win
3. Helmuth book
4. Advertising increase

It's not just my own observation either, a local group
of good players have noticed it too.

One thing is for sure, there are a lot more total players,
so it is reasonable that there are more terrible players.

What I can't explain is how so many have come in at levels
like 15-30.

D.

[leon]

"3. Helmuth book"

ROFLMAO. I like it.

"What I can't explain is how so many have come in at levels like 15-30."

Keep in mind money is relative. Unlike most of us who probably started at the low limits and worked our way up, hoping to learn something along the way, some of these new guys have some cash and don't necessarily see low limit as for them. Also, I'm sure many do not understand the bankroll requirements for each level. 1000$ is a great buy in at 15/30, and if these guys are used to blowing 1 grand each time they visit the casino, they might think they can afford the 15/30 game. Actually, if they're not looking to play long term, they're probably correct (in that they can afford a short term session buy in).

What I love is when you see them play a session or two of 3/6 and book a nice win. They always assume they've "caught on quickly" and move up to limits that are more suited to their new "skill level". lol

God bless em all.

Leon

[DILLIGAF]

I*hope* you are not complaining. Its a beautiful thing!

[doormat]

Felicia,
Calling a river bet when you can't beat the board is indeed a sign that a player has a lot of room for improvement, but it reminds me of a story from years ago involving Danny Robison. Danny is a world-class 7 stud player, at times during his career the best. One reason for his success is his ability to read cards and an uncanny knack for talking players into making mistakes.
Early in his career he was being backed in a game and found himself in a showdown with his backer. His backer had a pair of queens showing and bet into Danny, who had a busted draw and couldn't beat the queens. Danny flat called, correctly figuring the other guy hadn't improved. Of course his backer, knowing what a great player Danny was, figured he was beat. Danny then proceeded to talk him into splitting the pot, before the backer could show his hand! Needless to say, the backer was p.o.'d.
Of course Danny had expected the backer to muck his hand and give up the whole pot but had to think fast when he didn't do this right away. The lesson here is, if you find yourself playing against Danny, let the cards speak.

doormat

[Mano]

The WPT has definitely brought a lot of interest. I also think some recent books that have been selling very well may have some of these newbies playing in ways that is not the most profitable for them.

[lefty rosen]

People don't know draw percentages, thus they would never make such atrocious mistakes, and some people are also such sad Gamblers anonomous cases it's not funny, anyway unless these players are rich expect them to be skewered and gutted rather quick, I mean playing 3/6 or 5/10 online will max your credit card real quick when you call Ace 2 off on a raise.......(I have lost large to these morons lately god bless them.....)

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi David:

I think you're right on all points except for the Hellmuth book. Our book sales for this month of June (which is not quite yet over) are over five times what they were for an average month last year, and last year was our best year ever (until this one).

What this represents is the tremendous increase of new players, and the book Positively Fifth Street also helped in this area. And even though the Hellmuth book has some bizarre advice, I don't think it's a main factor in making the games good. It's simply the fact that new players often play very poorly, and when there are lots of new players, the games are very good.

Best wishes,
Mason

[David]

Online I play NL PL almost exclusively and have been loving the past few weeks. Last night I decided to try the 5/10 at Party. UNREAL! A perfect example is this hand. I have AA in middle position, all call to me, I raise, A total of 5 players see flop of A Q 6 rainbow. 3 players check to me and I bet. All call and sb ck raises me, fold to me and I reraise get 1 caller and sb caps it. Turn is 3, sb checks I bet other player folds and sb ck raises me again! We are now heads up and I reraise and he caps. River 10. SB bets and I raise, he reraises and I cap. He shows Q/10 for 2 pair on the river! Huh?

[Lee Jones]

The best way to prove this point: go to a casino. Pick a blackjack table where the minimum bet is $100. Now start watching people playing at those tables. You will see basic strategy errors ranging from mild to egregious. But surely people betting that much on a hand of blackjack would know and follow basic strategy, wouldn't they? Um, no. [1]

I think most of us agree that poker not played for money is a relatively uninteresting game. Then playing poker for stakes that monetarily mean nothing to you is only marginally (if at all) better. People who are playing poker for recreation (rather than income) will seek a game with stakes that will be interesting to them. It has nothing to do with their ability, bankroll, etc.

We've been discussing the recent explosion in poker's popularity, and I think WPT, PFS, Chris Moneymaker, and (yes), PhilH are to thank. The games at all levels should benefit, Akbar Allah.

Regards, Lee

[1] Mason, if I'm playing in a $1X-$2X hold'em game, how much would I have to bet at blackjack to get equivalent typical hourly swings?

[lefty rosen]

very solid play on his part........