Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks

An interesting hand just occured. Comments?

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

($19.35)
MP2 ($88.75)
CO ($40.55)
Button ($38)
SB ($123.95)
BB ($57)
UTG ($20.80)
UTG+1 ($197.30)

Preflop:Hero is UTG+1 with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, calls $1, MP2 calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $7.5</font>, Button calls $7.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $6.50, UTG calls $6.50, UTG+1 calls $6.50, folds, MP2 calls $6.50.

Flop: ($46.50) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $33.05 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, BB calls $33.05, UTG calls $13.30 (All-In), Hero...

Well, what do you guys think?

-Hero bets/fold?
-Hero bets/calls any raise?
-Hero bets/calls raises by shortstacks but not by Mp2?
-Hero bets pot, potcommits himself against Mp2 and the rest of the table, switches to 10/20 and watch some better players play the game?
-Hero check/folds?
-Hero check/raises?

[joewatch]

Fold preflop
Check-fold postflop

Playing middle pairs out of position / in raised pots is death for your BR.

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop
Check-fold postflop

Playing middle pairs out of position / in raised pots is death for your BR.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get the whole middle pair OOP thing, but wouldn't you play this hand from just about any position for the straight/freeroll potential? As long as you have the discipline to get away from bottom set, it would seem like there is a lot of potenial for this hand.

I agree the original poster's situation is not good with bottom set and the idiot end of the straight draw. He is likely to be drawing very thin against 3 all-in opponents.

[Tilt]

I totally disagree with Joe. Stuff it in. You very likely have BB beat, so your equity in the sidepot will finance a decent portion of your investment in the main pot. If CO has KK, so be it, but you are most likely ahead here with a set against these short stacks who basically committed preflop. And you have a draw to the nuts and all kinds of possibilities for making the best non-nut hand.

I crack people all the time with bottom set, for much bigger pots than this. I think bottom set is highly underrated.

I would have folded to the raise preflop though, cause you realy don't have the implied odds you need to call that raise with a hand like this. You are not going to flop a worthwhile hand very often, so you need to have the potential to stack someone big time when you hit to make it worthwhile.

[LearnedfromTV]

[ QUOTE ]
I totally disagree with Joe. Stuff it in. You very likely have BB beat, so your equity in the sidepot will finance a decent portion of your investment in the main pot. If CO has KK, so be it, but you are most likely ahead here with a set against these short stacks who basically committed preflop. And you have a draw to the nuts and all kinds of possibilities for making the best non-nut hand.

I crack people all the time with bottom set, for much bigger pots than this. I think bottom set is highly underrated.

I would have folded to the raise preflop though, cause you realy don't have the implied odds you need to call that raise with a hand like this. You are not going to flop a worthwhile hand very often, so you need to have the potential to stack someone big time when you hit to make it worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

Knowing you are a favorite over the BB is huge here because he is committed to calling and building a sidepot with you. Thinking just about the main pot, there is 125 in there now, 33 to call, so you need 21% equity to profit from a call from the main pot, if MP2 folds.

With 5 outs to the nuts (albeit hitting the 4 is potentially subject to a ton of redraws) you almost certainly have 21% equity given that you are the only one with a set a reasonable percentage of the time. And because you have &gt; 50% equity against BB's range of hands in a sidepot, you actually need less than 21% if you push, which you should, because:

If BB has top two or QJT or something, you want to get his $24 in now. Against anything but QJT7, 99, or KK, you are a strong favorite and he very rarely just calls with a set on this board. You also want to get MP2 to fold 99 or a weak straight draw.

So push and pray.

Oh. I don't hate the preflop call, but a fold is probably marginally better, given that this scenario is about the best you can hope for and any hand you make, even a flopped straight, is subject to redraws. The main problem is that the other stacks are so small

Well, the call from BB was the key for me, since it most likely puts me ahead in the sidepot. So I did what Tilt and LearnedFromTV suggested. I pushed. Thanks for the comments everyone.

<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $189.7</font>, MP2 folds, BB calls $16.45 (All-In).

Turn: ($191.85) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 3 all-in)</font>

River: ($191.85) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $191.85

BB has 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (straight, jack high).
UTG has T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (straight, king high).
UTG+1 has 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (four of a kind, eights).
CO has Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (two pair, aces and eights)
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $191.85.

[thekiller]

Yes pal.

How dare you do this play?

[Big Dave D]

I'm not familar with games at this level but normally, the more raising I receive, big stacks permitting, the better with this hand. Lots of limpers is potentially much much worse.

gl

dd