Press release: 60 minutes doing report on internet gambling

[Wynton]

Hot off the presses:

November 17, 2005

LEGALIZING INTERNET GAMBLING WOULD BRING BILLIONS IN U.S. TAX DOLLARS, BUT CRITICS SAY IT CANNOT BE REGULATED AND CAN CORRUPT YOUTH - "60 MINUTES"
SUNDAY

So many Americans use their computers to gamble on overseas websites that if those virtual casinos were to be regulated and taxed by American authorities, tax revenues would be in the billions of dollars. But the federal government says Internet gambling is 100 percent illegal, and people who want to keep it that way believe that the sites - legal in more and more foreign countries - can never really be effectively regulated. Whats more, they say, those sites can and do corrupt children and create more addicted gamblers. Lesley Stahl examines this contentious issue in a 60 MINUTES report to be broadcast Sunday, Nov. 20 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

In Britain, where many online gambling firms are based, a gaming executive says Americas treasury is missing out. "We calculated that were America to have regulated the industry in 2004, the American states would have earned
$1.2 billion in tax," says Nigel Payne, who runs the London-based Sportingbet, one of the biggest online gaming companies. Payne says he would be glad to pay an American tax in return for regulation of his industry, which he believes would eliminate some of the less-than-reputable sites he competes with. Payne estimates that 12.5 million Americans gamble on the Internet. Bets placed from the U.S. comprise as much as 80 percent of global online gambling, and contribute most of the $10 billion in profit the overseas "I-gaming" industry will make this year.

Despite a long-standing federal ban, more Americans gamble more money on the Internet each year. U.S. authorities have never prosecuted individual bettors and dont plan to start. Website operators are beyond the reach of U.S. law because theyre all based overseas, so they operate with impunity...even spending millions to advertise here.

The U.S.s own domestic gambling industry, which long opposed legalizing online gaming, has begun to shift its position. Seeing offshore competitors make billions while his U.S. company is shut out of the Internet is frustrating for MGM/Mirage CEO Terry Lanni. "Theres gaming in every state but two states in the United States," he says. "If its legal [in 48 states] and its regulated and taxed and were comfortable with it, why dont we allow it also in the area of the Internet? It makes no sense," Lanni complains.

But theres no serious move yet in Congress to legalize the industry, and at least one member, Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) wants a new law to put more teeth in the federal prohibition against online gambling. "Its so easy to do. Its so easy for kids to do. Its so addictive," says Kyl, whos pushing a bill that would prohibit U.S. banks and credit card companies from handling any online betting transactions. "We may not be able to stop it all, but if we can stop the major part of it thats coming from offshore, we will have done something very, very good," he tells Stahl.

Kids can get onto some of the overseas sites, as Alex Hartman, the 16-year-old son of 60 MINUTES Producer Rome Hartman, demonstrated. Using dads credit card, he gained access to a gaming website and quickly lost $100 playing roulette. Some sites rejected him, however, including one owned by Paynes company. Payne says properly regulating the industry so only responsible companies like his will survive is the best and only way to control the inevitable. "Think people are going to stop gambling? Seriously?
Do you think the Internets going to go away?" he asks Stahl.

[nsdjoe]

[ QUOTE ]
"Its so easy to do. Its so easy for kids to do. Its so addictive," says Kyl, whos pushing a bill that would prohibit U.S. banks and credit card companies from handling any online betting transactions.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be a disaster. I don't see casual fish sending money orders to Gibralter to play poker /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
"Its so easy to do. Its so easy for kids to do. Its so addictive," says Kyl,

[/ QUOTE ]

Is she criticizing online gambling or their existing, government subsidized tobacco industry? I can't tell.

[dreq]

then in 2 clicks on the CBS website you get pushed to an online poker room.

[Synergistic Explosions]

The last thing the world needs is the U.S. govt in the game of online poker.

[wonderwes]

60 min does pretty good reporting. Should be interested what people they interview and what content they use.

[kiddj]

[ QUOTE ]
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"Its so easy to do. Its so easy for kids to do. Its so addictive," says Kyl,

[/ QUOTE ]

Is she criticizing online gambling or their existing, government subsidized tobacco industry? I can't tell.

[/ QUOTE ]
NH

[MyTurn2Raise]

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The last thing the world needs is the U.S. govt in the game of online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

[MicroBob]

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"Its so easy to do. Its so easy for kids to do. Its so addictive," says Kyl, whos pushing a bill that would prohibit U.S. banks and credit card companies from handling any online betting transactions.



This would be a disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]


Obviously this would be a big deal if it ever got anywhere...but Senator Kyl has been trying to get this type of legislation going since 1997 and hasn't really gotten anywhere.
He's probably pushed forth 10 different forms and can probably be considered the leader of the movement to 'save our children and addicted gamblers from themselves' etc etc.
But it just hasnn't really developed much momentum.

the recent ruling from the World trade Organization against the U.S. probably helps a little bit as well (although not necessarily that much).


The big thing is that the online-gambling is growing more and more accepted by the general populace of the U.S. INCLUDING conservatives AND liberals.
It's not really considered a taboo anymore or anything like that.


however, pointing out to the country on national TV that it really is quite easy for a teenager to gamble online might raise some eyebrows and help the anti-gambling movement gain a little bit of momentum.

If anything is going to happen from a legislative point it probably wouldn't be for another year or two at least I believe (isn't the congressional session almost over??).

[Greg J]

This is very interesting. Thanks for posting it. I look forward to seeing this piece aired. Sounds like it's off to a good start.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]

Obviously this would be a big deal if it ever got anywhere...but Senator Kyl has been trying to get this type of legislation going since 1997 and hasn't really gotten anywhere.
He's probably pushed forth 10 different forms and can probably be considered the leader of the movement to 'save our children and addicted gamblers from themselves' etc etc.
But it just hasnn't really developed much momentum.

the recent ruling from the World trade Organization against the U.S. probably helps a little bit as well (although not necessarily that much).


The big thing is that the online-gambling is growing more and more accepted by the general populace of the U.S. INCLUDING conservatives AND liberals.
It's not really considered a taboo anymore or anything like that.


however, pointing out to the country on national TV that it really is quite easy for a teenager to gamble online might raise some eyebrows and help the anti-gambling movement gain a little bit of momentum.

If anything is going to happen from a legislative point it probably wouldn't be for another year or two at least I believe (isn't the congressional session almost over??).

[/ QUOTE ]
I was happy to see that some corporate forces are supporting legalization of online gambling. Can you imagine all the large casinos in this country cashing in on this? Passing out software in cardroom? You think poker games are fishy now... just wait until it's legal and you can go play hold em at Harrah's online or Belogiopoker.com!

I don't think a lot of people realize how much trouble it is for recreational players to figure out how to get money into an online account (credit cards rejected, etc), or how much some of them are suspicious/nervous about proving thier checking account information. If you make for more open access and fully legal online gambling we will have a true golden age of online poker. (I hope I'm not being too optimistic here -- I try to be realistic by nature.)

[Ro-me-ro]

[ QUOTE ]
he gained access to a gaming website and quickly lost $100 playing roulette. Some sites rejected him, however, including one owned by Paynes company .

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but if an underaged person gains access to their parents credit card details (parent's fault), I don't see how any company can necessarily prevent this from happening. Does anyone else think that was a shameless plug for "Payne's" company?

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else think that was a shameless plug for "Payne's" company?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. I think it's fair. I thought the release was well written. It was an illustrative point that it's hard to get money into online casinos sometimes.

[billyjex]

Thinking about these possibilities makes me horny.. but i'm not holding my breath.

[webmonarch]

If there is one thing that truly mstyfies me, it is the "value judgments" made by government forces.

As an original poster noted, tobacco, a substance that has been proven to KILL people is legal (and taxed). There are no fault divorces in every state. Alcohol, although less of a problem than it once was, leads to drunk driving deaths and public health risks (pregnancy, etc.). Its legal and taxed. Most every state has a lottery that has astronomical odds against winning it, and which tends to attract the people least able to afford it.

The idea that online poker is a threat is laughable at best. If it's wrong and corrupting our youth, then be consistent. Alcohol, tobacco, and the lottery, all of which have proven detrimental effects on the population should be outlawed and not taxed.

I think we all know what the chances are of that happening. I'd play the lottery before I'd bet on that. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

It's a start.

[UATrewqaz]

The less hoops people have to jump thruogh to play (AKA if you could just use a credit/debit card) the more casual (aka BAD) players will play.

There are probably many fishy players who have logged onto some net poker site, downloaded the software, played some play money games and when tried to deposit via credit card, got turned down and was like "Screw it" not wanting to create a net wallet, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
If there is one thing that truly mstyfies me, it is the "value judgments" made by government forces.

As an original poster noted, tobacco, a substance that has been proven to KILL people is legal (and taxed). There are no fault divorces in every state. Alcohol, although less of a problem than it once was, leads to drunk driving deaths and public health risks (pregnancy, etc.). Its legal and taxed. Most every state has a lottery that has astronomical odds against winning it, and which tends to attract the people least able to afford it.

The idea that online poker is a threat is laughable at best. If it's wrong and corrupting our youth, then be consistent. Alcohol, tobacco, and the lottery, all of which have proven detrimental effects on the population should be outlawed and not taxed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfectly stated. Send your comments to Sen. Kyl here: http://kyl.senate.gov/contact.cfm

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
There are probably many fishy players who have logged onto some net poker site, downloaded the software, played some play money games and when tried to deposit via credit card, got turned down and was like "Screw it" not wanting to create a net wallet, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is dead on.

[obsidian]

Since when has banning people from doing ANYTHING on the internet ever worked?

[krazyace5]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he gained access to a gaming website and quickly lost $100 playing roulette. Some sites rejected him, however, including one owned by Paynes company .

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but if an underaged person gains access to their parents credit card details (parent's fault), I don't see how any company can necessarily prevent this from happening. Does anyone else think that was a shameless plug for "Payne's" company?

[/ QUOTE ]

What if the kid gets his parents credit card and charges up hundreds of dollars in clothes at abercrombie and fitch? Guess they better ban e-commerce too.

The credit card issue is a ridiculous arguement.

[MicroBob]

yes. that was my thought too...except I was thinking about what if he used the CC# to buy a bunch of jewelry or rare baseball-cards or a classic motorcycle or whatever on e-bay or cars.com or wherever else.


or what if he got a hold of their parents account information and started making crazy trades on e-trade or ameritrade or schwab or wherever?



Yup....kids can actually steal their parents credit-card numbers or passwords to other sites.
I don't think it's the fault of the online-poker world or the online stock-trading places to patrol that.


Perhaps the parents should consider taking steps to keep such info from their kids??
Nah. That's just crazy talk.

[mex78753]

This would be good for winning poker players. But to compare online poker to buying lottery tickets and casino gambling is a mistake. It's not the same and it's not even close.

When someone has to drive 4 hours to a casino and drops 100's or even 1000's of dollars on games, they're going to feel [censored] and probably not come back for a long time.

But when people have the access to wager thousands of dollars at the click of a button without feeling the pain of actually handing someone out cash, it's completely different and much more dangerous.

Sure the sharks would feast but this would be very dangerous to our society and economy.

Be careful what you wish for.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
When someone has to drive 4 hours to a casino and drops 100's or even 1000's of dollars on games, they're going to feel [censored] and probably not come back for a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't true. They probably won't even remember losing their 1000's as vividly as they do the good time they had. In fact they will probably chalk their losses up to bad luck like most fish do.

[ QUOTE ]
But when people have the access to wager thousands of dollars at the click of a button without feeling the pain of actually handing someone out cash, it's completely different and much more dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you want to regulate what people can and can't spend their money on? Frankly if you are stupid enough to lose thousands of dollars playing games of chance or games of skill you don't deserve to have that money. I mean does the guy who bet his life savings on black on the roulette wheel really need to be saved from himself? What about the guy playing poker too high for his bankroll? These people made mistakes and deserve the consequences of them.

[Zetack]

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The last thing the world needs is the U.S. govt in the game of online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I would welcome it if they would simultaneously fix the way they tax poker winnings and made it your net profit. The way they do it now is incredibly fooked up for a recreational and/or small stakes winning player.

Zetack

Vote for Democrats next election so that online gamblers are no longer held captive by right-wing Christian nutjobs.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Its so easy to do. Its so easy for kids to do. Its so addictive," says Kyl, whos pushing a bill that would prohibit U.S. banks and credit card companies from handling any online betting transactions.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be a disaster. I don't see casual fish sending money orders to Gibralter to play poker /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. The fish probably won't have to send money orders. They will just have to use Netteller, Firepay, etc. I don't really think they can stop banks from transferring money to third party non-US companies like Netteller, etc. They can only stop them from transferring directly to gambling sites. Beside. Kyl has been introducing these bills for years, and they never get anywhere.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
But when people have the access to wager thousands of dollars at the click of a button without feeling the pain of actually handing someone out cash, it's completely different and much more dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree with this logic at all. You could make the same argument about casino chips. When people are wagering tokens that they bought it does not strike the same psychological chord as handing out cash money. I think most people know what they are doing when they click the mouse saying "bet $5" or whatever. Hell they even get to read what they are doing!

[ QUOTE ]
Sure the sharks would feast but this would be very dangerous to our society and economy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do understand potential negative consequences for society and economy, and they have logical and and defensible arguments (many of which I don't agree with fwiw). The thing about regulating human behavior is that it does not work all that well most of the time. Prohibition and the current "war on drugs" are fine examples. Online gambling will probably not ruin our society -- European countries are still doing okay last time I checked.

[mex78753]

At this stage I dont think online gambling can ruin our society. But if it gets too easy to gamble online then there will be potential for a noticable impact on our economy/society.

I think many here are biased because they make a living playing poker (Including me). But trust me, if the average person didnt have to set up firepay/neteller/paypal accounts where they have to wait days for bank account information to be verified, then too many peoples financial futures would be at risk.

Saying something stupid like "if a man bets his whole life savings on black in roulette doesnt it mean he didnt deserve the money in the 1st place" does not justify that peoples lives could be potentially destroyed by online gambling.

[Wynton]

Just want to add that I posted this because I think that the 60 Minutes report is basically a good thing (of course, I say that without knowing what they'll say). I've been surprised that there have not been more hard news stories about internet gambling. And my view is that the more information the better, and the less likely some wacko legislator will be able to push through some ridiculous legislation without anyone noticing.

[blackize]

I'm not saying that he didn't deserve the money in the first place, he obviously earned that money, but if he gambles it all away he doesn't deserve to keep it.

I mean say I stand outside the bank and wait for people making withdrawals and then say "Wallet Inspector" and they hand over their wallets. Do they really need to be protected from their own stupidity? If a man gambles away his hard earned money then great, his life is in the shitter and being poor and stupid he is less likely to have a family which means he is less likely to have stupid children. Darwin in action.

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying that he didn't deserve the money in the first place, he obviously earned that money, but if he gambles it all away he doesn't deserve to keep it.

I mean say I stand outside the bank and wait for people making withdrawals and then say "Wallet Inspector" and they hand over their wallets. Do they really need to be protected from their own stupidity? If a man gambles away his hard earned money then great, his life is in the shitter and being poor and stupid he is less likely to have a family which means he is less likely to have stupid children. Darwin in action.

[/ QUOTE ]
When did lack of money ever prevent stupid people from having children?

[Bikeboy]

So what's next? Limiting someones ability to trade stocks? It's not the governments job (or shouldn't be) to save me from myself. I could just as easily piss away my life savings on the stock market.

[Jimmy The Fish]

[ QUOTE ]

Belogiopoker.com


[/ QUOTE ]

Me, I wanna play on belugapoker.com... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mex78753]

I never said limit anyones ability to gamble online. I just dont think it's good for the flood gates to open. Then again it seems to work well for britain so who knows. I was just pointing out that there are serious cons to a freeforall on internet gambling.

[Sniper]

Link to the 60 minutes Article and Video (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/17/60minutes/main1052420.shtml)

[blackize]

Update: While watching football today the ads for 60 minutes tonight have all said "If gambling online is illegal, then how come millions of Americans do it"

Damn CBS and their misinformation.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sure the sharks would feast but this would be very dangerous to our society and economy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do understand potential negative consequences for society and economy, and they have logical and and defensible arguments (many of which I don't agree with fwiw). The thing about regulating human behavior is that it does not work all that well most of the time. Prohibition and the current "war on drugs" are fine examples. Online gambling will probably not ruin our society -- European countries are still doing okay last time I checked.

[/ QUOTE ]



I agree. In my province you can go into any corner store and bet on sports with pro line along with the lottery and it hasn't killed our economy or damaged society.