KQo. PARTY 1/2. RIVER.

[flawless_victory]

i open black KQ in LP.
guy who who ive never played w/ before calls in BB...
he bought in 5K and folded every hand for his first orbit (i think).
anyways, HU.

flop A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gifX /images/graemlins/club.gif
check.bet.call

turn comes A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
check.ibet, he thinks about 10 secs and calls.

river 3c
he checks and now its my turn....


what is my best play?
if i bet and he raises, should i fold/call/reraise?

[elindauer]

hi flawless,

some thoughts:

You might have been better off checking behind on the turn and calling his river bet. You likely win the same from made / missed draws, while losing less to a hand with an ace in it. It's unlikely that he holds a hand that will fold if you bet but which also has very many outs against you.

Given the way you played it, I'm inclined to check behind on the turn. Note that if you do this, then it provides even more merit for checking the turn to induce a bluff, since you are only planning to get 1 BB from a weaker king anyways.

I think you can bet and get called by weaker hands, but you'll also run into tricky aces and of course rivered flushes when you bet, cutting into the value quite a bit. If you do choose to bet and are raised, you can only beat a bluff, so you have to decide if an unknown will bluff raise here often enough to justify a call. Hard to say, you'd have to ask someone with more 100/200 experience. I'd guess the answer is that it's close. If it were up to me, I'd fold to a raise.

good luck.
eric

I'm checking here. I dont like him calling that turn card and then seeing the flush card get there on the river. I think he's either slow playing three aces or he's made his flush. I think you're best line is a check/call. I dont think that a worse hand is calling a river bet, but I really think a better one is raising here, all the time. Check call, and see what he shows down, you dont have info on him yet, but you will now.

Why are you playing $1.00/$2.00 limit poker? I thought this was a high stakes forum.


Thick.......




Tex

[tongni]

I bet pretty quickly and don't think about it too much. If anything, the fact that he paused so much on the turn makes me want to bet more, because a flush draw usually knows what he's doing by the turn. Anyways, somehow I have a feeling this sort of player isn't going to bluff the river, so good turn bet.

[DeeJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're best line is a check/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's in position, he can check behind. That's what I'd do as the flush draw and the slow-played Ace are possible. There's not much you beat he'd call with (worse Kx)?

[Jeffage]

Bet. He'll call with worse kings and he seems intent to not raise a weak ace if that's his holding. Seems like an easy VB esp. if you see him as scared money. But yea, I'm betting and seeing what it collects.

Also, people that are taking a shot would typically take the gimme bet if they make the flush bc they're afraid you'll check. Or he'd pref bet-calling because he doesn't want to put in 3 bets if you happen to have the monster boat.

Jeff

[DeeJ]

you fold to a raise, right?

[Jeffage]

Yes.

Jeff

Reading posts this early in the a.m. is difficult for my weery eyes....

check/check...

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
if you see him as scared money.

[/ QUOTE ]
i did think this to some extent.

[DonCaspero]

If he has an ace and didn't raise the turn, he's probably not going to raise the river either. If he has the flush his turn indecision may indicate that he's somewhat scared of your hand, and will probably not raise. A full house would probably not check raise this river, because there is no evidence you have the flush, so that card may scare you into checking behind. So I think it's a bet. He calls with worse kings. A lot of "probably's" though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If he raises I don't like it, but against a complete stranger getting 8:1 I think it's a call.

[tpir90036]

I check behind on the turn a lot in situations like this against tricky opponents... probably more then is optimal. But in this spot, we have no reason to believe that our opponent is prone to getting out of line so why not bet the turn and take the free showdown if the draw comes in?

I agree with your thoughts in general but against an opponent who is unlikely to bluff the river and seems like he could call down with a lot of holdings (just going with the possibly scared read) I think we might be missing some value by checking behind on the turn.

[BurnsvilleCardClub]

Bet the turn, bet the river, and fold to a river raise.

[Ryno]

He could be checkraising a made flush, but that's ok, I think betfolding edges out checking behind with bet-calling the show horse (bet-raise never got out of the gate). If he's taking a shot he's not going to take a bad hand to the river and then overplay it. A pause by a player like you describe is usually a calldown or fold decision.

[elindauer]

You should make up any missed value bets on the river, pick up some extra money from total bluffs and calls from very weak hands that would have folded, etc.

If he's so passive that he won't ever raise the turn with a hand you can beat, and he won't bluff the river after you check the turn, then yes, betting the turn becomes the better option. However, at 100/200, I suspect you don't see many players like this. Even the passive ones are probably pretty aggressive.

-Eric

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
If he has an ace and didn't raise the turn, he's probably not going to raise the river either. If he has the flush his turn indecision may indicate that he's somewhat scared of your hand, and will probably not raise. A full house would probably not check raise this river, because there is no evidence you have the flush, so that card may scare you into checking behind. So I think it's a bet. He calls with worse kings. A lot of "probably's" though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If he raises I don't like it, but against a complete stranger getting 8:1 I think it's a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, i agree w/ everything in this post.

i bet the river, he paused and then raised! fvck.
i folded, but i think i folded cause i wouldve felt like such a sucker here putting in 2 bets on the river w/ just a K (as opposed to a bad A).
i basically had to force my self to hit fold and felt kinda bad about it right afterwards. i think paying it off mgihtve been best.

[DeeJ]

[ QUOTE ]
i think paying it off mgihtve been best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'd be good here 0% of the time. Especially if he thinks you're aggressive, this is how he'd extract the max with trips (or top boat). If he's uber-tricky it could be a bluff, but I would say this isn't the spot to prove that theory, as he seems to know you haven't got a better Ax hand.

[imashyboi]

Pre-Flop - Standard

Flop - Standard. You have to put a read on your opponent starting here cause of the A and the flush draw on the board.

Turn - Standard. The call here should be an indication of your opponents holding. He can only call here with 3 hands, split K, slow playing trips A, or flush draw(maybe gutshot straight draw?) I don't think he'll call here with anything less than a K though, mid pair could be likely if he's a calling station.

River - The card didn't help anyone so you are either behind or ahead here. If you decide to value bet the K you might have to fold to a raise on the river, I don't see any card that you can beat here unless it's a bluff. My first intention was to just check it through since the A on the board really scares me. I don't want to get bluffed out too so I rather see what type of holding he called me on the turn, this way you'll see if he respect your plays for future purposes or if he's trying to get cute.

[eviljeff]

I check here. if you bet and he c/r I'd fold. reraising here is unthinkable.