Use of auto buttons (fast play or slow play?)

[thwang99]

Hi all,

When playing shorthanded tables online, (5 and 6 max), is it generally better to play slow or fast? I can play pretty fast using the auto buttons (auto-check-call, auto-fold, etc...). Sometimes I'd need to see player's actions before it gets to me but I can still play pretty fast (for example if I have a hand I'm calling $1 with, I'd check "auto-call $1", and if someone raises I'd then make a manual move).

Playing really fast seems to get people to "gun" after me, though. Playing slow or at a more regular speed, you blend in more as just another player. What do people think?

- Tony

[FeliciaLee]

I know you weren't asking about the auto-buttons in particular, but, in general, I tend to exploit players who use those buttons.

There was a big article in Cardplayer about players who use the auto-buttons in online poker. You might want to check it out. I believe it was written by Andy Glaizer.

Online tells are harder to pick up than live tells, but this one is a biggie.

[Barry]

I just don't understand why autofold is such a big tell. It doesn't give the folks ahead any information and the players behind don't learn anything that they wouldn't have anyway.

Now autoraise, that's another story, but it is somewhat player dependant.

[FeliciaLee]

http://cardplayer.nr.net/opn/mattlessinger0303.html

It is a two part article.

I'm sorry that I credited the wrong author. Matt Lessinger wrote this.

[Jimbo]

Felicia the article is pretty much worthless. It is based on one faulty premise after another. If I have a hand that requires a decision I will not hit auto-fold and neither will other competent players. If you are sure to fold even if a wise owl whispered in your ear, " This is it. Your lucky hand, 7/2 soooooted." then auto-fold becomes even more correct not less.

[mrbaseball]

I remember thinking what a load of crap that article was the first time I read it. I think the guy needed to write an article and chose a subject he wasn't very well versed in.

[Barry]

Now having read the article, I agree with Jimbo, it's pretty useless advice. Perhaps early in my on line experience, I was using the "in turn buttons" too much, but no longer. If I'm in CO or on the button with Ax, I'm not going to click the autofold button. If it's folded to me, I'm going to raise.

If I have 92o in the big blind, I don't care what the possible stealer has, I'm folding to any raise, so I check the autofold button.

It's OK to use the buttons so long as you're a thinking player.

[Aragorn]

Returning to your original question, I don't think people are going to play any differently against you if you fold quickly with a bad hand.

And anything that makes the game go faster is good to me

[thwang99]

Yes, faster is good. At 1/2, I'm not sure poeple would pay attention to the "auto button" tells, IMHO. I think players see you playing fast and get intimidated. Afraid to bet/raise into you for fear of an instant reraise (say I get QJs and decide to raise it, I'd click the "raise/raise any" checkbox).

But I see most people don't use them. Anyways, at higher limits I don't use them either for the reasons most of you state, except for auto-fold with crap. It's not worth the slight +EV to have to think when I get dealt 95o, I think. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[bigfishead]

For the most part Matt is an idiot in this article. As Jimbo pointed out any competent player will know and understand when and how to use them buttons.

What YOU as a player dont know is I'm mucking A10o in early middle, KJo in any pos. What you dont know as a player is that when I'm in the SB, BB I KNOW you will try and I WILL play back at you. VERY HARD. And when I show ya that I did it with 72o and you go on tilt I WILL get your money. Rarely online do you see a player who thinks 2-3rd level. When you do watch out. Throw that article in the trash.

[doormat]

Felicia,
Articles like this can cost you money if you are not careful. Advising people to raise more frequently into players who use the auto-fold button is foolish for several reasons. Just because someone folds quickly does not mean they fold too much, and folding too much should be your criteria for raising more. My guess is that players who use the auto buttons are in general more experienced than those who don't, and this article would have you overplay your hand at the more experienced players. Personally I love the buttons - anything that speeds up the game gives a winning player a higher earn per hour. One other thing to consider - you don't know when I hit the auto-fold button. You may assume I hit it as soon as I saw my hand, but in reality I didn't hit it until after I saw a raise. Any blackjack player from the old days can confirm that a bad tell is worse than no tell.

doormat

[Aragorn]

Clearly the author doesn't distinguish between using the buttons and using them badly. If you are a bad player, they may be another way to to make mistakes. If you aren't, they shouldn't affect your play at all.

[mostsmooth]

i think you guys are saying the same thing matt said
he said "Players who constantly "auto-fold" are not considering their options to the fullest, and they are not paying enough attention to the game". constantly use autofold.
he didnt say if you use autofold youre a moron, he said people who constantly use it.
why are you ripping him for saying the same thing you are saying?

[mostsmooth]

well?
am i missing something? or are you criticizing the guy whos saying the same thing you are saying?

[Jimbo]

Here is the worse portion of his article:

" Players see a hand they don't intend to play, and they are too impatient to wait for the action to reach them before folding. So they simply click a button, and when the action reaches them, their hand is mucked. Convenient? Yes. Problematic? Definitely.

Players who constantly "auto-fold" are not considering their options to the fullest, and they are not paying enough attention to the game. It's plain and simple. They want to "auto-fold" so that they can end their involvement in the hand as soon as possible. I guess they have something important to do between hands (or in some cases are playing two games at once and want to be able to pay full attention to the other game).

What they should be doing is watching the current hand, even if they are not involved in it. They should be observing the other players, and getting a better idea of their opponents' tendencies. I doubt that they are doing that, though, because otherwise they would have no need to speed up the process of folding. But consider this: If you don't have the patience to wait for the action to reach you before folding, then you probably don't have the patience necessary to play solid poker.

It seems to me that most players do not realize the problems inherent in constantly exercising the "auto-fold" option; otherwise they would not continue to do it. Let's look at some situations where using it clearly hurts your EV (your hands "expected value" over the long term)."

Now mostsmooth please tell me how you can agree with any of this.

[mostsmooth]

a portion? thats practically the whole thing
how about you tell me the parts you dont think are accurate?(specifically, dont just say the whole thing)
i think people who constantly use the autobuttons are making a mistake, dont you?

[jek187]

Essentially the author states that since you obviously aren't paying attention to the game when you use auto-fold, you're losing out on some EV.

For the sake of argument, lets say that you use auto fold so you can play another game. While your EV will be lower per game, you've nearly doubled it by playing 2 games. The author seems to ignore this.