Standard fold here?

[Rizen]

By way of edit: This is the 4th hand of the tournament. First 2 hands were family pots with 5-6 limpers. Haven't seen much aggression yet, but no reads on the table at all.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG+1 (t1480)
Hero (t1640)
MP2 (t1630)
CO (t1580)
Button (t1450)
SB (t1260)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t1960)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t80</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t240</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t1480</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1750

-Rizen

[Exitonly]

i'm.. probably calling there. what buyin is it? JJ and AK do that more than AA/KK do.

[Rizen]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm.. probably calling there. what buyin is it? JJ and AK do that more than AA/KK do.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the 150+12 on Stars.

-Rizen

[A_Junglen]

I'm not that anxious to get myself in a coinflip or worse...I'd fold

[KneeCo]

I don't if I would say it's 'standard', but I do think it's a good fold. Close, but a good lay down.

Exit, I'm a little surprised you call here if you fold the Queens in the hypothetical from Matt's Cardplayer article.


equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 47.3659 % [ 00.46 00.02 ] { QdQc }
Hand 2: 52.6341 % [ 00.51 00.02 ] { AA-JJ, AKs, AKo }

[Exitonly]

in the Matt Matros article there wasn't 480 in the pot already.
we're getting 1.4:1 here. Big difference.

edit: i should say, my problem with the mattros hand isn't that we're only 53% to win, but that theres nothing in the pot already.

edit 2: In your equity calculation, you have it so AA is just as likely as JJ, and i dont think thats the case. So the equity is even more in favor of QQ. (plus the dead moneY)

[MLG]

I'm never reraising with QQ in this spot and folding to a push. Although I will flat call with it sometimes.

[KneeCo]

[ QUOTE ]
in the Matt Matros article there wasn't 480 in the pot already.
we're getting 1.4:1 here. Big difference.

edit: i should say, my problem with the mattros hand isn't that we're only 53% to win, but that theres nothing in the pot already.

edit 2: In your equity calculation, you have it so AA is just as likely as JJ, and i dont think thats the case. So the equity is even more in favor of QQ. (plus the dead moneY)

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Also, theres a big difference in the article descibes a situation in a deep stack tournament. But do those things compensate for the fact that in the article we *know* the villain has AK, whereas here we can't be sure.

I'm just not so sure that in a &gt; 100$ MTT, a player who we know nothing about is raising 4 BBs UTG and pushing to a solid raise and therefore most likely is holding AK? The JJ+/AK range is the best I can figure.

[mikeymer]

I think I take the gamble here.

[billyjex]

I don't laydown this hand in a Stars tournament. The blinds move so effing fast I am willing to take what looks like a coinflip against his hand ranges.

[Rizen]

I thought about it quite a while before I folded. Perhaps this is flawed thinking, but I convinced myself that this may be slightly +cEV but it would make my volatility in this tournament huge. I'm still unsure if I should have laid it down or called, but it's done now.

What about PF? Does anyone limp behind or raise more here?

-Rizen

[SunOfBeach]

i think that this is totally buy-in dependent. at the lower buyins, their range is too broad, and it'd be an instacall for me. at the higher buy-ins, youve gotta let this baby go.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm never reraising with QQ in this spot and folding to a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the real point. You can't say no to 1.4:1 here, plus it's early and the donk factor still lurks. And if you bust, hey, you only blew 5 minutes of your time.

Though I usually flat call in this spot and wait to build a pot until after the flop. Not because I don't think I'm best, but because it's easier to get paid off by worse hands when you get ahead and easier to duck out cheap when you get outflopped. Mostly the former though.

Everett