View Full Version : Ethical Dilemma
OOT I need your help.
A friend asked me yesterday if I would write a 7-10 page paper for him. (It is due in 2 weeks) He offered me $125 to do this, and I still wanted to negotiate the price but I agreed in principle. I wrote him a short proposal about my idea which was due today. After thinking it over, I realized that I don't think thats enough money for my time, and I don't even want to write it anyways.
My friend is now upset because he already turned in the idea and he obviously doesn't want to do it. I told him to email the professor or go to his office hours and try to change the idea. I also offered to do some research and help him shape the paper for free.
Am I completely in the wrong here? Also, is anyone on OOT interested in doing this? Could anyone reccommend a place in which he could purchase a paper? Thank you.
Peca277
11-16-2005, 09:14 PM
Not enough $... make him do his own [censored] paper.
Aloysius
11-16-2005, 09:21 PM
It's wrong to do this for him in the 1st place, so having a change of heart about an inherently unethical act is OK in my book. It's nice of you as a friend to help him out with his paper. That's the most he can, ethically, ask of you anyway.
But if you're talking about weaseling out of agreed upon terms with your buddy - then I think you should definitely do what you feel is $125 of work for him. That's fair.
Tell him you'll do it, but make it clear to him that he will get what he pays for. If he won't agree on a higher price, just take 2 hours and throw something together.
LittleOldLady
11-16-2005, 09:23 PM
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OOT I need your help.
A friend asked me yesterday if I would write a 7-10 page paper for him. (It is due in 2 weeks) He offered me $125 to do this, and I still wanted to negotiate the price but I agreed in principle. I wrote him a short proposal about my idea which was due today. After thinking it over, I realized that I don't think thats enough money for my time, and I don't even want to write it anyways.
My friend is now upset because he already turned in the idea and he obviously doesn't want to do it. I told him to email the professor or go to his office hours and try to change the idea. I also offered to do some research and help him shape the paper for free.
Am I completely in the wrong here? Also, is anyone on OOT interested in doing this? Could anyone reccommend a place in which he could purchase a paper? Thank you.
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You are in the right--not because the fee isn't high enough, but because knowingly writing a paper which your friend will turn in under his name is grossly unethical. It is academic dishonesty to turn in work that is not one's own, and the penalties can be pretty stiff if one is caught. Speaking from experience, I can say that if his professor has had any interaction with your friend at all, the professor will be able to tell that it's not your friend's voice. Besides which, the whole point is that your friend (not you) is supposed to be getting an education from his coursework.
It would be perfectly OK for you to sit down with him and toss some ideas around until he has a sense of what he wants to say. Likewise it is OK for you to read a draft and give feedback. But you as author of a paper he submits, not OK. And you as pimp for a paperwriting mill or ghostwriter, also not OK
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knowingly writing a paper which your friend will turn in under his name is grossly unethical
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Nope. Kidnapping, torturing and killing an innocent child is grossly unethical. This is neither here nor there. I don't understand why some people insist on making a big deal out of the stupidest most inconsequential things.
Aloysius
11-16-2005, 09:37 PM
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knowingly writing a paper which your friend will turn in under his name is grossly unethical
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Nope. Kidnapping, torturing and killing an innocent child is grossly unethical. This is neither here nor there. I don't understand why some people insist on making a big deal out of the stupidest most inconsequential things.
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I guess it depends on your definition of ethical. I would think alot of people would agree that turning in work, in an academic environment, is on balance an unethical act for a variety of reasons (unfair to other students etc.).
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knowingly writing a paper which your friend will turn in under his name is grossly unethical
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Nope. Kidnapping, torturing and killing an innocent child is grossly unethical. This is neither here nor there. I don't understand why some people insist on making a big deal out of the stupidest most inconsequential things.
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I guess it depends on your definition of ethical. I would think alot of people would agree that turning in work, in an academic environment, is on balance an unethical act for a variety of reasons (unfair to other students etc.).
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Furthermore, what your friend does with the paper he buys from you is really none of your concern. The ethical problem is between him, the professor and the institution.
In the business world, people "farm out" projects all the time. The person accepting the project is only responsible for completing the project and nothing more.
There is nothing inherently wrong with writing a paper ... indeed, that was the assignment given to a whole class of students, so it unlikely is not an unethical task.
There is something inherently wrong with academic fraud, but that would belong to the student passing the paper off as his own.
That being said, you made a deal with agreed upon terms and a completion date. You should live up to your bargain.
Aloysius
11-16-2005, 09:51 PM
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Furthermore, what your friend does with the paper he buys from you is really none of your concern. The ethical problem is between him, the professor and the institution.
In the business world, people "farm out" projects all the time. The person accepting the project is only responsible for completing the project and nothing more.
There is nothing inherently wrong with writing a paper ... indeed, that was the assignment given to a whole class of students, so it unlikely is not an unethical task.
There is something inherently wrong with academic fraud, but that would belong to the student passing the paper off as his own.
That being said, you made a deal with agreed upon terms and a completion date. You should live up to your bargain.
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Not sure how "Ethics" even came up in OPs original post actulaly. Sounds like he wants to know if it's weasely to back out of his original deal.
Oh and gonna have to disagree with you - I think that if you knowingly partake in an unethical act, then yes, you are being unethical (I understand there is nothing inherently wrong with writing a paper, but there is knowing what the paper's intended use is).
tonypaladino
11-16-2005, 09:55 PM
Custom writen papers should be at least $40-50/Page
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I guess it depends on your definition of ethical. I would think alot of people would agree that turning in work, in an academic environment, is on balance an unethical act for a variety of reasons (unfair to other students etc.).
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I don't see why an "academic environment" deserves special treatment. I agree that taking credit for someone else's work without their permission is a little unethical. But here, the person doing the work doesn't want credit, he just wants a couple hundred bucks. It's not like the futures of everyone in the class will be altered if the kid gets an 86 on the paper instead of a 74 or whatever.
Aloysius
11-16-2005, 10:14 PM
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I don't see why an "academic environment" deserves special treatment. I agree that taking credit for someone else's work without their permission is a little unethical. But here, the person doing the work doesn't want credit, he just wants a couple hundred bucks. It's not like the futures of everyone in the class will be altered if the kid gets an 86 on the paper instead of a 74 or whatever.
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From a real-world standpoint what you're saying makes sense. I think often times ethics applied to real world situations underscores the stupidity of holding fast to certain ideals, without exception or flexibility.
But from a pure ethical standpoint - the idea is that if OP writes this paper, his buddy gets a "free pass". This is unfair to everyone else who didn't get that free pass and had to spend their valuable time / resources getting it done.
Assuming OP's buddy gets a higher grade than he would've if OP didn't write the paper - this is also unfair to others, because we have to assume OP's buddy is in direct competition with other students for jobs, grad school whatever.
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But from a pure ethical standpoint - the idea is that if OP writes this paper, his buddy gets a "free pass". This is unfair to everyone else who didn't get that free pass and had to spend their valuable time / resources getting it done.
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No "free pass" here. He's paying for it. Even if he wasn't, he'd either owe his friend a big favor afterwards, or be calling in a favor that his friend already owed to him. The paper just won't get written if the kid doesn't spend some reasources. Whether he chooses to spend his time, or his money, or "credit" is a purely personal decision.
Also, I highly doubt any of his classmates will be rejected from grad school or forced to take a worse job because of this.
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I don't see why an "academic environment" deserves special treatment. I agree that taking credit for someone else's work without their permission is a little unethical. But here, the person doing the work doesn't want credit, he just wants a couple hundred bucks. It's not like the futures of everyone in the class will be altered if the kid gets an 86 on the paper instead of a 74 or whatever.
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From a real-world standpoint what you're saying makes sense. I think often times ethics applied to real world situations underscores the stupidity of holding fast to certain ideals, without exception or flexibility.
But from a pure ethical standpoint - the idea is that if OP writes this paper, his buddy gets a "free pass". This is unfair to everyone else who didn't get that free pass and had to spend their valuable time / resources getting it done.
Assuming OP's buddy gets a higher grade than he would've if OP didn't write the paper - this is also unfair to others, because we have to assume OP's buddy is in direct competition with other students for jobs, grad school whatever.
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I cannot agree. The op is hired to write a paper. Nothing improper happens until the "student" attempts to pass it off as his own work. That aspect of the transaction is between the student and his institution.
Now, if the op belonged to that institution, he may have agreed to follow a moral code, or code of ethics associated with the school.
That would be another issue, however.
Your concern is more of a moral question, not a question of ethics.
Thanks for your responses. My question is whether or not It's okay for me not to do the paper at this point. I realized that I had made a mistake in agreeing to do this and I wanted to reneg from the agreement and help my friend out. Backstory here is that I did this for him in April, when he was too busy playing p#$#r to write the paper and I had no cash. Nowadays, I am doing well in p#%#r and he has less money. As I said, I am willing to help him with the paper anyways for free. So is it ok for me to back out of writing the paper?
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Thanks for your responses. My question is whether or not It's okay for me not to do the paper at this point. I realized that I had made a mistake in agreeing to do this and I wanted to reneg from the agreement and help my friend out. Backstory here is that I did this for him in April, when he was too busy playing p#$#r to write the paper and I had no cash. Nowadays, I am doing well in p#%#r and he has less money. As I said, I am willing to help him with the paper anyways for free. So is it ok for me to back out of writing the paper?
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Tell him you'll do it, but make it clear to him that he will get what he pays for. If he won't agree on a higher price, just take 2 hours and throw something together.
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I see your point but he is my friend. I don't feel that terrible about not doing out, but I would feel bad abouut giving him a really crappy paper and just screwing him.
wdcbooks
11-16-2005, 11:09 PM
I did this once for my very wealthy and very stupid Kuwaiti roommate in college. First, I have always regretted it and felt like an ass for agreeing to cheat. Second, I got $200 for it and that was in 1992. If you are going to sell your honor at least make decent coin for it.
Blarg
11-16-2005, 11:10 PM
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knowingly writing a paper which your friend will turn in under his name is grossly unethical
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Nope. Kidnapping, torturing and killing an innocent child is grossly unethical. This is neither here nor there. I don't understand why some people insist on making a big deal out of the stupidest most inconsequential things.
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This argument strikes me as clearly no better in any way than what it argues against.
Blarg
11-16-2005, 11:13 PM
I agree that the $125 is dirt cheap. A really good paper can take quite a few hours to put together and type up.
However, once you accept the deal, especially once your friend got the idea submitted and approved by the professor, and it was YOUR idea, not one he mapped out for you, you really do owe him the completion of the paper. And without any further aggravation.
Next time, if there is a next time, think about the hours and if it's really a high enough hourly rate.
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I see your point but he is my friend. I don't feel that terrible about not doing out, but I would feel bad abouut giving him a really crappy paper and just screwing him.
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You wouldn't be screwing him, you'd be telling him straight out that if all he is willing to pay is $125, you'll do it, but you'll do a real half-assed job. If he's willing to accept that, then fine. If not, he can either renegotiate price, or write the paper himself. It's not like I'm saying you should spring a poorly-written paper on him at the last minute.
Since it was wrong for you to agree to do this in the first place, I don't think it is wrong to change your mind. Your friend should just be happy that he's not getting exposed as a plagiarist.
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knowingly writing a paper which your friend will turn in under his name is grossly unethical
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Nope. Kidnapping, torturing and killing an innocent child is grossly unethical. This is neither here nor there. I don't understand why some people insist on making a big deal out of the stupidest most inconsequential things.
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This argument strikes me as clearly no better in any way than what it argues against.
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I wasn't trying to make an argument about what is or isn't ethical. I was just pointing out that it's ridiculous that some people get so worked about actions that have no effect on them personally, and minimal effect on anyone else, that they feel the need to condemn them.
For the amount of time and effort required, you get paid better playing bridge with antes
once u agree, if ur his freind you cant back out, i think 125 for 7-10 pages is a low but going rate is about $10-20 per page, hes not paying you for a "half assed" paper either, the paper should be good regardless of the agreed upon terms. to most college kids $125 is alot of cash-he is paying for a A-B paper. they all dont have a poker players perception of money (i personally think for 10 pages 100-200 is about right)
his deadline does not change because u change ur mind, and tell him later that you dont want to do it.
also saying its ethically wrong so you wont do it becuase u want more money/dont feel like doing the paper IS TOTAL BS
another thing
-- id be alot more worried about the ethics of being a prick to your freind than the ethics of him cheating on a paper
RacersEdge
11-17-2005, 01:46 AM
Being an accomplice to an unethical act is unethical.
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