AKo after limpers

[J.R.]

Online NL tournament. I have T1100, about 50th out of the 80 left, 170 started, top 20 get paid. 50-100 blinds. Kind of loose and somewhat passive. Three limpers and one folder to me with AKo. 450 in the pot. Do I bet the pot, go all-in or something else. No monster stacks behind me, the limpers and the blinds were average stacks.

I hate this situation. I'll let you know what I did in a bit. Thanks for any comments.

[fnurt]

I would almost always go all-in with AK here, since raising the pot will be half your stack anyway.

[cferejohn]

I go all in. There's a pretty good shot you will pick up the pot, which is certainly big enough to be worth your while. Your stack is small enough that there is no point to making any smaller raise. If you get called, it will probably only be by one player against whom you will be a big favorite or a small underdog (if someone was limping with a small PP). You might get called by someone slow playing AA or KK, but that's not too likely since you have one of each.

You should understand that 'betting the pot' preflop means (the amount of the bet to you (100)) + (the amount of the in the pot *after* you have called the bet (550)), so a 'pot sized bet' would be 650, over half your stack.

[DJA]

If you raise the pot, you will have put in T650, which is more then 50% of your stack... go all-in.

Just My Thoughts,

Derrick

[fnurt]

Just pointing out that the person with AA or KK might not be slow playing since they could simply be sitting behind you.

Obviously since I recommended going all-in I feel that's just the chance you have to take here.

[J.R.]

Thanks for the responses. My thoughts were the same as everyone else, I went all-in and was called in 4 places. Flop came 677 and pocket sixes took it down.

In light of the loose nature of the table, if I had a suspicion (paranoia) that my raise would be called, perhaps in more than one spot, would that have changed things?

[cferejohn]

Egad. 4 callers? How did they last this long? You don't give their chip counts, but you say that they are about average, which I'm guessing means 2500-3000, so your 1100 is a pretty good chunk of their stack.

If I was sure I was going to get multiple callers...well...I think I would do it anyway. Most of the callers are going to be significant underdogs (since presumably they don't all have pairs). If people are playing this loose you're not going to be able to steal much anyway, so you may as well get your money in in as good a situation as possible. When you get this many callers, you're going to lose most of the time, but you should win more than 1/5 and when you do you're going to quintiple up, which will put you in very nice position (probably in the top 15 or so). Sorry it didn't work out, but I can't imagine playing it any other way.

Chris

[Magician]

Had a very similar situation today, $50 NLHE, I was short-stacked (not dire) - but my stack was 1/2 the average.

Blinds were 100/200 and I had about 2,500 chips left.

I was in MP, player before me raised 4BB. I moved all in.

He flips over pocket Aces. End of tournament yet again.

I'd seen him moving in unnecessarily with pocket 9's earlier in the tournament but that time he had A's.

Is there anything I could have done differently, or was it rotten luck yet again?

[Justaloser]

I'd make a pot sized raise. Often, that's enough to take the blinds. If not, see the flop and go from there.
If I'm reraised, then I've got a tough decision to make.
Depending on how I feel my image is (do they think I'm stealing or loose), I'd fold or go over the top all-in.

[cferejohn]

Assuming you had AK here (you don't say, but you say it is a 'similar situation'), I make this play 7 days a week and twice on sunday (unless I am one out of the money in a supersattelite or something). It sucks to run AK into AA, but on the bright side, it doesn't happen often (and you'll be the one with AA half the time).

[cferejohn]

A pot sized raise is over half of his stack (assuming we're using the 'pot-limit' definition of 'pot-sized raise', which would make it 650 (his stack is 1100). Even if we just call it 450, that's still close to half of his stack. a) I don't think that's making anyone lay down and b) I don't see how he can fold his last 500 or so if someone comes over the top.

[cferejohn]

Also, I'd really like a look into the head of the 3rd and 4th callers. Sure the first caller could have said "he might just being trying to buy it" and the second caller could say "he might just being trying to buy it and the second guy with a decent hand thinks so to. Unless numbers 3 and 4 were slow playing AA/KK, I have no idea how they can make this call.

[Magician]

Yes I had AKo. Actually what happened was, after I moved all-in, the BB moved all in too. Then the guy acting before me called.

BB flips over QQ, guy before me flips over AA, I have AKo. A King even appears on the flop which means I would've beat the QQ if the guy before me hadn't picked up pocket Aces.

I'm wondering if anyone can really win consistently. I know my game isn't at Chan or Hellmuth's level, but it seems so easy to get knocked out capriciously.

[J.R.]

Last overcaller had the 66 and about T3500. There's a reason I play in these tournaments. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

I like playing nl tourneys for fun, this was a low buy-in ($20) and I still have a lot to learn, but I like my chances given how half the field often plays.

[cferejohn]

I think you can. You do need a pretty big bankroll to play multi-tables though. Remember 1 win pays a lot of entry fees. I think the lesson to be learned from your hand that QQ should have folded (unless the call cost fairly few chips). That's a tough fold to make, but against a re-raiser and a re-re-raiser its difficult to conceive that you aren't up against AA or KK.

[Justaloser]

I was thinking a raise of 450. You're right that a raise of 650 is no better than all-in.

I do think though that you've got a better chance of coming back and winning if you fold to a reraise after betting 450 than getting called and losing when you go all-in /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Honestly, he was bound to lose the hand given that four people called. He also said that he felt he would get called. If so, then I would consider limping and seeing the flop. I DO NOT think this is a good strategy in general, but might have been a possible play for this hand.
If you flop something, you're still able to get your chips in (if they were loose enough to call an all-in, at least one would have called after the flop) and if you miss, it's an easy fold.

[XlgJoe]

Why is limping with AKo in the situation not an option? If you get in cheap, you either hit the flop or you fold. If someone behind you makes a big raise, then you get to see what the other limpers do before you make a decision.

I am also learning how to play NL, so I would be grateful for an explanation on the best way to play it. I have seen a lot of people loose with AKo going all-in.

[fnurt]

You don't want to have a lot of opponents with AKo because "hitting the flop" becomes less meaningful. It's not like when you flop an ace or a king you will automatically win. When you're up against a lot of hands, people are going to flop draws, two pair, stuff like that. Because it's hard to flop top pair with AK and get away from it, you have the potential to lose a lot of money.

With a lot of money already on the table you'd really like to just pick it all up pre-flop, which is usually the best outcome for AK. If you get one caller that's not nearly as dangerous as having a lot.

That said, if I knew the table was so loose that I was certain to get called in several places, as was the case here, I think I probably would just limp and play cautiously from there. Against a loose game you want to see a lot of flops cheaply and wait for a big one, rather than get all your money in pre-flop on a big multiway gamble.

[curtains]

Allin wshould be nearly automatic here. You are increasing your stack size by almost 50% by winning the limpers money and the antes.

Raising to 450 or 500 is not correct, because you are pot committed at that point and have to put your remaining 600 in any case. Forgive me if 100 people said this already, I didnt read the responses.