Interesting 89s Line -- Hrmm...

[mlagoo]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t700)
UTG+1 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t1840)
CO (t790)
Button (t685)
Hero (t785)
BB (t800)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t15, Hero checks.

Flop: (t75) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t75) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t25</font>, MP3 calls t25, Button folds, Hero calls t25.

River: (t150) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t50</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t325</font>, Hero calls t175.

Final Pot: t800


What do you guys think? Preflop is obvious, and I think flop is pretty standard, but the turn and river and kinda obvious.

[Manque]

I'd play it the same way.

[raptor517]

i would probably throw a 40 unit out on the turn. otherwise, i think you def need to call the river for 175 more, even though theres a pretty solid chance yer behind. meh. holla

[handsome]

Why didn't you bet the river?

[mlagoo]

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Why didn't you bet the river?

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I checked planning to checkraise. Its arguably FPS, but I "had a feeling" the dude would bet. meh.

[bluefeet]

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I checked planning to checkraise. Its arguably FPS, but I "had a feeling" the dude would bet. meh.

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What is your read on him? Your line is COMPLETELY indicative of an "8". Is he reraising the river with anything other than a larger "8" or a boat?

I'm not advocating you fold to the reraise, I'm just curious.

His modest turn lead is slightly interesting (after the hand of course) - is he NOW betting his "8"? Did he flop a set on the flop, looking to c/r himself? Did he hit the set on the turn? Trying to real in one or two, hoping they improve?

Villains play, not having any prior read suggests to me one of the following holdings - 2s, and perhaps JJ or TT.(limped in looking to a limp reraise PF) I personally don't see villain with a bigger 8. And feel Hero is ahead more often than not. All streets seem okay to me.

[mlagoo]

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What is your read on him?

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Blinds 10/15 /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[bluefeet]

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[ QUOTE ]
What is your read on him?

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Blinds 10/15 /images/graemlins/frown.gif

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HA! always the observant one /images/graemlins/wink.gif

For the record, I lead the river. Unaware of course of the monster lurking, I wouldn't count on him continuing his lead on this river for you -- not after his weak turn, river now bringing what SHOULD be a scary card for him.

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River: (t150) 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t50, MP3 folds, Hero raises to t150, MP1 raises to t325, Hero pushes

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[bluefeet]

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River: (t150) 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t50, MP3 folds, Hero raises to t150, MP1 raises to t325, Hero pushes

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why?

what hand is calling that we beat?

blinds 10/15

probably 11/22's

AQ, JJ, to start with.

[bluefeet]

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blinds 10/15

probably 11/22's

AQ, JJ, to start with.

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MP1 - hero
SB - villian

- "hero" AQ/JJ open limping from MP, doubtful
- "hero" AQ/JJ checking behind 4way on a SD flop, certainly not the AQ
- "hero" AQ/JJ value betting the turn, ok (if we got past the PF/flop irregularities)

RIVER: "villian" c/r'd...

What is hero trying to accomplish with 3betting here?

For value?

-- what hands would "villian" call with that are behind...
--- AQ: a weaker Q? a 2?
--- JJ: a 2?

-- what hands would "villian" be ahead of us here, yet fold...
---AQ: trips? a boat?
---JJ: a Q, trips, a boat?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only possible situation I can dream up here to support pushing over the top (for our hero) would be...

True Villain: 99-JJ.....PRAYING our hero has checked TP on flop, check-called TP on turn, check-raised TP on river.

Our hero has no business pushing this river IMO. If I had to guess, he lost to bigger trips or a boat.

Probably lost to 2's full IMO. But then again we don't know the stakes, it's an 800 stacker so villains play(results notwithstanding) probably questionable.

[raptor517]

goodness i just noticed that was a check raise you made on the river. thats awful. dont ever check raise there. can only get you in trouble, because you make a worse hand fold and a better one reraise. bet the river. period. holla

[mlagoo]

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goodness i just noticed that was a check raise you made on the river. thats awful. dont ever check raise there. can only get you in trouble, because you make a worse hand fold and a better one reraise. bet the river. period. holla

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FPS

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yeah.

[raptor517]

i prefer to call it DPS /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[mlagoo]

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i prefer to call it DPS /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

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well i dont know if you noticed raptor, but i DID have a feeling.


oh, and since i feel like i now know how this hand should have gone (maybe a small bet on a turn, and a bet/call on the river), here are the results:

villian shows 77 for sevens full. rigged.

[raptor517]

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i prefer to call it DPS /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

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well i dont know if you noticed raptor, but i DID have a feeling.


oh, and since i feel like i now know how this hand should have gone (maybe a small bet on a turn, and a bet/call on the river), here are the results:

villian shows 77 for sevens full. rigged.

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yer lucky the villian played his hand about as bad as possible /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

I think I might checkraise the turn to t100. This early, you do not want to get a lot of chips in without a big hand. It may seem that checkraising just makes a bigger pot, but in actuality is reduces the number of chips that go in later, and therefore you risk less chips overall. After just calling, if you don't improve, your river decision will be difficult. If a card lower than 8 hits, betting out at the river puts you in the position of only being called by hands that beat you. If you check the river, villian will likely increase his bet size. Since it is likely neither of you improved, and you thought your hand was good on the turn (you called drawing mighty thin if you thought you were behind), you would likely have to call a t125 river bet. Also, if an overcard to a 10 or higher hits, you have a problem with knowing where you are at and have to act out of position.

By turn checkraising, hands that you beat will fold, taking away the tricky situation on the river. Big hands that were slowplaying will defintely reraise, and you can toss your middle pair without a second thought. When he just calls you can shut down unimproved, but if you do improve bet out to get paid off with your newly big hand.

Well, that's my logic. Please let me know if I'm a complete idiot.

Thinking about my last post I realised it was a pile of poop.

I thought about the hand again.

Hero is dealt 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif a drawing hand in the SB. He couldn't be more OOP.

First consideration when you get a hand is it's possible strengths and weaknesses. If you should play the hand, why, and what are you looking for ? with this hand you want to hit the flop hard. Period. you want at least two pair/flush/straight draw.

Second consideration. Position. If you folded here it would probably be soft but not bad. For 5 chips though its worth the gamble.

The flop. No good. You have a weak pair, no real kicker and no real draw to speak of. You have achieved none of the objectives this hand requires for optimal play. You are now looking to
a) dump the hand - check/fold
or
b) try and steal the 75 chips in the pot - bet/fold

Turn - assumes you have chosen option a - hence you should fold. You have no reason to call here. Fold. If you want to continue in the hand you should raise if only so you're not operating in the vacuum you're currently in.

River - You shouldn't be here knowing as little as you do about the other players hands unless you want to throw some more chips down the drain.

[raptor517]

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I think I might checkraise the turn to t100. This early, you do not want to get a lot of chips in without a big hand. It may seem that checkraising just makes a bigger pot, but in actuality is reduces the number of chips that go in later, and therefore you risk less chips overall. After just calling, if you don't improve, your river decision will be difficult. If a card lower than 8 hits, betting out at the river puts you in the position of only being called by hands that beat you. If you check the river, villian will likely increase his bet size. Since it is likely neither of you improved, and you thought your hand was good on the turn (you called drawing mighty thin if you thought you were behind), you would likely have to call a t125 river bet. Also, if an overcard to a 10 or higher hits, you have a problem with knowing where you are at and have to act out of position.

By turn checkraising, hands that you beat will fold, taking away the tricky situation on the river. Big hands that were slowplaying will defintely reraise, and you can toss your middle pair without a second thought. When he just calls you can shut down unimproved, but if you do improve bet out to get paid off with your newly big hand.

Well, that's my logic. Please let me know if I'm a complete idiot.

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check raising 2 players sucks. what if one of them calls, and a 2 comes on the river. do you bet? do you check? it doesnt change the situation at all, it just makes the pot bigger, which you dont want. im gonna be an ass and play results here.. say you check raise to 100, villian calls, then the 8 pops on the river, you fire out 225 he shoves, you pretty much have to call. goodbye stack. i duno i just dont really like a check raise, if i didnt break it down well enough with words.. i duno i just woke up im tired. checkraising turn sucks thats all i got holla