Card Tracking in Poker and Breaking Vegas

Playing a little poker at f-woods over the weekend could not help but notice the dealer would consistently show you the bottom card before shuffling. I would not think you could do much by knowing the location of one card but in blackjack this can give you a powerful edge.
Anybody ever heard anything about this? Is sort of a rambling post but hopefully somebody gets the point and maybe could explain. Never been a card tracker so dont know about the various shuffles and how this relates to poker i asuume the edge could never be quite like blackjack and hopefully the casinos would stop this if people were using this tactic.

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Playing a little poker at f-woods over the weekend could not help but notice the dealer would consistently show you the bottom card before shuffling. I would not think you could do much by knowing the location of one card but in blackjack this can give you a powerful edge.
Anybody ever heard anything about this? Is sort of a rambling post but hopefully somebody gets the point and maybe could explain. Never been a card tracker so dont know about the various shuffles and how this relates to poker i asuume the edge could never be quite like blackjack and hopefully the casinos would stop this if people were using this tactic.

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First, are you serious with this statement?

Second, the cut card should be on the bottom when he's dealing. Where was it? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

you can see the card before the shuffle not during the deal. You would have to track the card during the shuffle. Apparently this is not as difficult as people think according to breaking vegas but that is in blackjack. I was not trying to track the card or anything just was wondering if it was theoretically possible.

Ah missed that about it being before the shuffle. Meh. Do they even still deal one-deck blackjack? Don't they all use multideck shufflemasters now?

multideck - no problem for tracking as long as it hand shuffled. you should read breaking vegas to understand. most of the stuff took place like 10yrs ago. but until they completely use shuffle masters all this stuff is still possible. you could theoretically win lots just by knowing the location of one card.

Knowing the card can make a huge impact on the outcome of the next hand for several reasons. A card that starts on the bottom of the deck may stay on the bottom of the deck if the dealer chooses to keep it there. That's information. The dealer could be showing the card and have a partner/player in the hand who is looking. The dealer then shuffles the card so it will come out on the flop. Any talented dealer can locate cards in the deck and put them where he wants.

This also becomes of greater value playing Gin when each person deals for himself and knows the location of just one card. Here's another... knowing 2 cards /images/graemlins/wink.gif

As for an inadvertant showing by a dealer I would say he/she is not a very good dealer which does happen alot in more casual environments. Any sharp player who knows about card placement would not have much trouble identifying the placement of the card in the deck with a margin of 2-3 cards. Any information is an edge.

I could go on but isn't this plenty already....

As to the ethics contained herein, let's leave that for a different thread.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[drewjustdrew]

some places still deal one deck. Orleans does occasionally.

[Vincent Lepore]

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I would not think you could do much by knowing the location of one card but in blackjack this can give you a powerful edge.


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If he shows you the bottom card before he shuffles you are probably playing one deck then you still must shuffle track and then it probaly doesn 't give you a great edge if they don't go deep in the deck. Now if he shows you the bottom card before he starts dealing then you have something in single deck.

In poker especially Holdem knowing where one card is is very powerful indeed. Just imagine knowing where an Ace is when you hold K,K or Q,Q. It is one of the reasons that one should always pay attention when the cards are dealt and opponents are discrding.

Vince

basically i was referring to hold em poker. since im not an experienced tracker and i did not concentrate to hard i was unable to follow the card.
as for the ethics involved i definitely hope there is no player who can get an edge like this and would hope casinos definitely use a very good shuffle

[tpir90036]

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If he shows you the bottom card before he shuffles you are probably playing one deck then you still must shuffle track and then it probaly doesn 't give you a great edge if they don't go deep in the deck. Now if he shows you the bottom card before he starts dealing then you have something in single deck.

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The method that is being talked about has nothing to do with the number of decks. You could just as easily use the technique in Atlantic City 6 or 8 deck BJ.

It involves cutting in such a way that you know the exact time the bottom card from the end of the shuffle is coming out. And if that card is an Ace (for example) and you can arrange that it gets dealt to yourself... your EV getting even money from the house is huge. There are other ways of using the technique as well. Very interesting book.

[mostsmooth]

i often watch the bottom card(s) during the shuffle when theres a weak dealer.
if the dealer is weak (slow, poor shuffler,etc.), you can get a good idea of where the card is at. there are many dealers that the bottom card stays on the bottom throughout the shuffle(even with fast shufflers). you can then judge by the cut whether said card will be involved,be it in a hand or on the board.
there was a thread about this about a year or so ago. i think i might have started it?

[Cracker]

In blackjack if you know your 1st card will be a ace, your advantage is around 51%; a ten value card gives you around 13%. If you see that the bottom card is an ace, you can try to cut exactly 1 deck(not hard to get within 1-2 cards with practice). When you know the ace will hit you can spread to 3 hands at a maximum bet & have a large edge if it hits one of those hands.51% edge on one hand,-.5% on the other two for about 16% of your total action.