10-20 NLH -- Pot control v. value

[Rococo]

4 handed. I have $2300. Villain has me covered. I would describe Villain as relatively conservative. He is capable of bluffs and trickiness, but more often than not, his bets mean what they appear to mean. Villain probably views me as TAG. I haven't played many hands, but he has seen me put in a big reraise against another very good LAG at the table.

Preflop

Folded to me on the Button. I raise to $70 with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Villain calls in the BB.

Flop

A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Villain bets $125. I call.

Turn

Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Check Check

Am I missing too much value by trying to keep the pot under control? I still feel like I am struggling to strike the right balance in these types of situation.

[Jonny]

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Am I missing too much value by trying to keep the pot under control?

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Yeah... I think you need to bet the turn every time, or raise the flop. You think you are against 88? That is only one possible hand, which he'd probably lead the turn with. Bet the turn.

[thabadguy]

400 to go at-least on flop.

[Andrew Fletcher]

Two pair is a pretty strong hand in this situation. He could have a big ace or maybe even air if he is any good. I raise the flop and turn.

[IHateCats]

4 handed with only 2 running cards I'd definitely say this erring on the side of caution. You have a very solid 2 pair, he's more likely to put you on a draw or an A weak kicker than the reverse, quite probably you have him trapped and drawing to 3 or fewer outs much more often than not here. Unlike the other posters so far, I'm fine with just calling the flop and reraising or open leading on the turn if checked too, he's much more likely to pay off with A-10, AJ if you build it slowly than blast him off of those hands on the flop with your TAG image. The other advice might work if you have a looser image but you're not likely to get paid off with a weak A with this approach which is what you want with your current table image. Reraising on the flop also makes it dangerously easy to get stacked if he did hit that set as unlikely as it is, the opening lead into the preflop raiser from a TAG is always a bit of a danger sign. Fire another 60-75% on the turn and hope elicit a call from him on the river to a small value bet if he checks an A good kicker to you but top and bottom pair 2 handed from late position 4 handed is too good to play weak like this on the turn. If he check raises big or leads out for a pot sized bet on the river if paint comes and you've got a further decision but you definitely need to apply more pressure here on the turn.

[Rococo]

Why in the world do I want to raise the flop if Villain is on pure air?

[thabadguy]

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Two pair is a pretty strong hand in this situation. He could have a big ace or maybe even air if he is any good. I raise the flop and turn.

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Very true, leading into a button raiser outta hte blinds with nothing is something i do very very often
You gotta have something to steal my blinds.

[Andrew Fletcher]

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Why in the world do I want to raise the flop if Villain is on pure air?

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If he has AK-A10, you want to raise the flop so your two pair doesn't get counterfitted. If he has air, you want to raise the flop to keep him in line. Even though you've likely got the best hand right now, I hope you'll raise in this spot when you don't.

[Rococo]

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Why in the world do I want to raise the flop if Villain is on pure air?

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If he has air, you want to raise the flop to keep him in line.

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If you are talking about this specific hand, I don't want to keep Villain in line if he has air. If you are talking metagame, I'm still not sure that I want to keep Villain in line, but in any case, calling keeps him in line enough for my purposes.

[slickpoppa]

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Why in the world do I want to raise the flop if Villain is on pure air?

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You don't raise the flop because the villain may have air, you raise in spite of that fact. If the villain has air and is conservative like you said, there is no way you are getting any more money out of him on the turn with an ace on the board. Therefore, you raise to protect your hand in case the villain has a bigger ace, but you're not really losing anything even if he does have air.

[Chaostracize]

This is pretty wrong for a button versus blind matchup. You need to be aggressive with any part of the flop and any draw. He could be betting so many hands. Calling does not keep him in line.

[SunOfBeach]

gotta be pretty similar EV between playing it as you did and maybe picking off a bluff/bet on the river, versus raising the flop...

the key has got to be to sometimes play it one way, and to other times play it the other.

[thabadguy]

Call, potting/raising turn is another alternative.
Reraising pf is acceptable too.
Calling, checking turn is horrifying.

[Jonny]

He could easily be betting his OESD here...

[Chaostracize]

Hero has position.

[turnipmonster]

I do this all the time also, I think many players do. easy for him to have a draw here also as someone else pointed out.

[BobboFitos]

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Two pair is a pretty strong hand in this situation. He could have a big ace or maybe even air if he is any good. I raise the flop and turn.

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Very true, leading into a button raiser outta hte blinds with nothing is something i do very very often
You gotta have something to steal my blinds.

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i love that statement

[turnipmonster]

I think the pertinent question here is what hands are were controlling the pot against? I don't think pot control is a good reason to check this turn, although there might be other good reasons to check it, depending on opponent.

[AZK]

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I think the pertinent question here is what hands are were controlling the pot against? I don't think pot control is a good reason to check this turn, although there might be other good reasons to check it, depending on opponent.

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i don't think this is a board where you worry about pot control with aces up.

[Rococo]

Thanks for the replies. I generally agree that I need to get more money in the middle here somewhere.

For whatever reason, I decided once the flop came to play the hand as if I had a bad A. Villain was playing a bit weak, which 1) made me doubt that he was on 9T, and 2) made me afraid of losing him if I raised the flop; and 3) made me somewhat concerned that he had 88. I assumed that he probably was drawing at no more than 3 outs (or else I was crushed), so I wasn't that concerned about giving a free card.

The bigger question for me was how to get money in the pot if I was ahead. I checked the turn because I wanted him to bet his AJ or whatever on the river. I think that was a reasonable (though certainly debatable) decision given how weakly I played the flop. As it turns out, the river was a 7. He bet, I raised and he folded.

In retrospect, however, I think that I should have raised the flop as TBG suggested and tried to get some real money in the pot from a big A earlier in the hand.

[flawless_victory]

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I think the pertinent question here is what hands are were controlling the pot against? I don't think pot control is a good reason to check this turn, although there might be other good reasons to check it, depending on opponent.

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I DONT THINK THIS IS A BOARD WHERE YOU WORRY ABOUT POT CONTROL W/ ACES UP.

JUST WANTED TO REITERATE IN CAPS.

GO ALL IN.

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