Somebody PLEASE FLAME ME!!!!!

[DaNoob]

Ok,

I've been playing NL tourneys for the last 4 months or so, am still learning, but consider myself to be a DECENT player at the very least. Then, 2 days ago, I play the WORST possible poker I think I've ever played and feel the need for a huge <font color="red">FLAMING </font color> by my highly respected buds at 2+2. So please, have at me, and don't hold anything back.

$5 S&amp;G NLHE @ Stars

Level 1 - Blinds 10/20

Hand #1 T1500
It's the 3rd hand of the tourney and I'm in BB with Q /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . UTG, UTG+1 both limp, CO raises 20, folded to me and I call (thinking I either hit hard or muck on the flop), limpers call. 4 to the flop with a pot of T90.

Flop: 8 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . (SWEET)

I check, UTG checks, +2 bets 40, CO raises to 80. I raise ALL-IN, only CO calls, and he turns over A /forums/images/icons/club.gif J /forums/images/icons/heart.gif and no help comes for him on turn or river. I now have T3100. (sweetness, I've got it made)

Level 2 - Blinds 15/30

Hand #2 T3060
I get dealt A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif in CO and limp (FLAME), button, SB &amp; BB come along for the ride. Flop comes 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . SB bets 30, BB calls, I muck. (SB ends up winning with J /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif , but this is beside the point).

Hand #3 T3030
I get T /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif in EP and limp, with 3 others.
Flop comes 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . EP bets 30, we all call. Turn comes 7 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . Checked to me and I bet 120, hoping to drag the pot. I get 2 callers. River brings 6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . Checked around and EP shows A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif A /forums/images/icons/club.gif . I lose.

Hand #4 T2850
I get dealt 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/club.gif in the BB. EP limps, mucked to me, I check.
Flop comes 7 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . I check, EP bets 30, I muck.

Hand #5 T2820
I find K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif in the SB . Mucked to me, I complete, and BB checks.
Flop comes T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif J /forums/images/icons/club.gif . I bet the pot, BB calls. Turn 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . Check, check. River 4d, check, check. We both turn over Kx and split the pot.

Hand #6 T2820
I find myself with A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif in MP and decide to limp after one limper. Another limper in MP, followed by a T30 raise from the button. SB and all limpers call to see a flop of 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . Checked to the CO (yes I CHECKED), who bets 90, button raises another 90. Folded to me, and I muck.

Level 3 - Blinds 25/50

Hand #7 T2600
I'm in MP with A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Q /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . UTG limps, UTG+1 (same guy who slow-played AA earlier) raises 200. I muck.

Hand #8 T2560
I get dealt A /forums/images/icons/club.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif in MP. UTG limps, I limp, button limps, BB checks.
Flop comes T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif . Checked to me, I bet 150, UTG calls. Turn 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif . Check, I bet another 150, UTG calls. River 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif , no help for my flush. UTG checks to me, I check. UTG turns over K9o and drags the pot.

Hand #9 T2135
I get J /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/heart.gif on the button. UTG, UTG+1 limp, as do I, SB completes and BB checks.
Flop comes T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif. Checked to me and I ....check??? Turn T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . Checked around to me again, and I check again. River K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . UTG bets 200 and everyone mucks.

Level 4 - Blinds 50/100

Hand #10 T2310, 7 players left.
I get dealt A /forums/images/icons/club.gif A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif in MP. Folded to me and I limp, hoping to induce a bluff/raise. Button, SB, and BB all limp/complete.
Flop comes 9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif J /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . BB bets T1000 and we all muck. So much for my aces...

Hand #11 T2210
I'm in BB and find J /forums/images/icons/heart.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif . UTG+1 (T3570) raises 100, mucked to me and I call.
Flop comes A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif J /forums/images/icons/club.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif . I check, UTG+1 bets 100, I call. Turn 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . Check, UTG+1 bets 100, I muck.

Hand #12 T1860
I get Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif UTG and raise 200, folded to SB, who calls. Flop comes 8 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . SB bets 100 and I muck.
Level 5 - Blinds 75/150

Hand #13 T1560
I find 4 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/club.gif in the BB. UTG and +1 limp, mucked to me, I check. Flop comes 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . I check, UTG bets 450, we both muck.

Hand #14 T1410
I find 6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif in CO. UTG (T4600) raises 150, mucked to me, I muck.

Hand #15 T1335
I am in BB and have T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . Button calls, everyone else folds. Flop comes T /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif . I check, Button bets 450, I raise all-in, and button turns over A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . My 2 outer doesn't arrive and I'm out.

After I finished this tournament, I wanted to kick myself for playing so poorly. I thouht I played loose-weak for most of the tournament and let people run all over me, basically giving my large stack away. I've since recovered and had a couple of money finishes and stronger performances, but I think I need a good flaming to make sure the lessons stick.

So, thanks for taking the time to read this, now FLAME AWAY!!!

[DaNoob]

*BUMP*

Alright guys, I spent mucho time this morning hammering this post out, so someone at least just call me an idiot or something... I need <font color="red"> FLAME </font color>. Da me <font color="red"> FUEGO </font color>.

[Jimbo]

Do not post 15 hands in a single post if you really want a response.

[cferejohn]

Hand 1 - I don't think I would have gone all-in there, probably just raised to 500 or so, but I think it was pretty much fine. Boy do I not understand making a minimum raise after limpers.

Hand 2 - Well how can I flame you when you flame yourself? Probably a muck or raise situation. Although TJ Cloutier had an article in Cardplayer where he recommended that in NL Ax with a wheel draw should only be limped with, if played at all. Not how I would play, but a very sucessful tournament player might play it is you did.

Hand 3 - I probably muck this pre-flop. If your table was pretty passive, I guess the limp is OK. If its suited I like the limp alot more. After that, I would have played it just about the same. I don't have the faintest idea why EP didn't either a) check raise your turn bet or b) bet out on the river.

Hand 4 - Fine. Man, I was getting my insults already, but nothing really horrible yet.

Hand 5 - I almost never complete the SB if it is folded to me. Its more defensible with the blinds low, but I'm pretty much stealing or mucking, especially with such a weak hand that's going to be very hard to play if I flop top pair and get played back at. Still, not horrible. I like the flop bet. I might bet out the same amount on the turn to see how serious he is.

Hand 6 - AT is a bugaboo for me too. I would raise to 120 here. If someone plays back at you, then you can easily lay it down since they probably have AT beat. Even if you get a caller, you'd much rather play this heads up. If you don't want to raise, I'd muck. If it is suited, I'd like the limp alot more, since a suited ace can win you a big pot. ATo is only going to win a little or lose alot, and raising gives a chance for the 'win a little' outcome. Is the button the CO from hand 1? On the flop, why did you check? Were you planning to check-raise a single limper and got worried by the raiser? I think you have to bet out on this with the likely best hand but straight and flush draws out. Did you ever get to see what the button held?

Hand 7 - Good. You pass the AQ test. Buy yourself some ice cream. Possible he would do this with a few worse hands, but not the place to make a stand, I don't think.

Hand 8 - Nice try. Seems you'd been playing fairly tight, so worth a shot. Make a note that he calls down with 2nd pair. On the turn, I might check since he might have a 6 and is going for a check-raise, which you won't be able to call.

Hand 9 - I probably would have bet the flop here. However, I don't hate taking the free card.

Hand 10 - Ick. Personally, I almost never slowplay aces. If I was going to do so it would be a) in EP, preferably UTG and b) with one or more players who had routinely been raising limpers. Don't know if b) was true, but as first in from MP, I raise to 300 or 350 and hope someone puts me on a steal (had you been stealing much when folded to in MP? This is the blind level where it starts getting to be a good idea, both because you steal blinds and it can get you played back at on hands like this). Horrible flop for you. Good fold.

Hand 11 - Flame on. I don't really like the preflop call against such an early raiser (I'd like it much better if you were suited); I like to punish players for making minimum raises, but from EP that often means a semi-slowplay of AA or KK who wants one caller, but not a bunch. Had this player often been making minimum pre-flop raises? If this was the first time he'd done it, I almost certainly muck. I don't mind calling the minimum bet on the flop if you think he is bluffing at you. However, given that you call that bet (i.e. you think he is bluffing), why do you not call a 2nd small bet on the turn? I think at this point a) he has something like 99 or TT and is scared to put too much money in or b) he has AA and he is sucking money out of you. He's making it pretty cheap to find out which so far. If I call the flop bet (and that's a big if), I definitely also call the turn bet, since nothing has changed and its cheap. If he makes a big river bet, I grumble and fold, but you may get it checked to you.

Hand 12 - Have I mentioned I hate minimum raises? You don't mention how many players there are left, but with the blinds that big and your stack that small, I think you have to play this even at a full table. If you are going to raise, make it at least 300 (maybe 350) and give yourself a chance to buy the blinds. You're close to, but not quite at, the point where you would probably just go all-in if you are going to enter the pot. The flop is definitely either raise all-in or fold. I am prone (maybe too prone) to raise people who make minimum bets since it just looks like they are trying to buy the pot as cheaply as they can. It depends alot on what this player had been doing. If they had been seeing a lot of flops and making minimum bets, I'm definitely going all-in here. If they've been playing tight and not making any such bets (so it looks like a trap with an 8 or an overpair), I like the fold.

Hand 13 - Fine. A lot of people would say go all-in from the BB pre-flop, and I think that would certainly be defensible. If one of those limpers is a big stack though you're probably getting called with a coinflip. That's not the worst thing that could happen to you, but I'd rather take my stand elsewhere. If your pair had been 77 or better, I think all-in is definite.

Hand 14 - Again with the minimum raise. Is that common at this level? You rarely see it at the $30+3 sit'n'go's. Again, all-in or fold. I don't like to play low pocket pairs against players who have already shown strength, so I don't mind the fold. You don't mention if you are close to the money. If so, the fold is even more defensible.

Hand 15 - Not much you can do there. I would make a bet of about 350 on the flop though, and depending on what I thought of the button, I might be able to lay it down to his big raise. I don't really like the check-raise since it fits neatly into the realm of 'only better hands will call'. Well, a diamond draw might call too.

Your play wasn't that bad. A few generalities

1. Don't make minimum raises.
2. Don't slowplay big PPs unless you have a very good reason to think you will be raised.
3. Don't let other people get away with routinely making minimum bets. Pop them back now and then when you have nothing to let them know they can't get away with it. When you have something marginal (like 2nd pair in hand 11), call them down if they make it cheap.

But if you want some insults to carry in your heart:
Ahem.
I've seen blind monkeys make better plays than this horsecrap! I tell you what, just send me the money and punch yourself in the nuts! It will save every one time!

Feel better? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Chris

[DaNoob]

Thanks for the flame. I'll take your sarcasm and lack of willingness to help as an answer to my plea.

I tried to go back and reduce the number of hands, but it's past the editing timeframe...so..

As to the number of hands, I've seen several people do this before when they saw disturbing trends in their play. 15 is a bit on the extreme side, I agree, but not worthy of your snide comments.

Gracias amigo.

[DaNoob]

Chris,

Thanks for the post. I agree with your assessment and loved the flame. I just felt like I didn't play this tourney to win. I definitely need to re-raise those minimum bets from time to time to keep people on their toes.

Anyway, thanks again!!

Chris

[Jimbo]

"As to the number of hands, I've seen several people do this before when they saw disturbing trends in their play. 15 is a bit on the extreme side, I agree, but not worthy of your snide comments."

Danoob, first you ask for a flame. I take the time to offer not only a flame but a constructive flame, then you call my comments snide. You haven't even seen snide yet. Besides if you find another post in the last 6 months where someone has posted 15 detailed hands like yours and expected comments on them all I will buy you a new straw hat!

[DaNoob]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Besides if you find another post in the last 6 months where someone has posted 15 detailed hands like yours and expected comments on them all I will buy you a new straw hat!

[/ QUOTE ]

I love a good challenge. As a side note, if your comments were really meant to be constructive, I apologize for calling your comments snide. I did not interpret them that way, and perhaps I made a mistake.

Now, on to my new straw hat:

Not sure how to paste links to other posts, so I'll list the names of the posts and the date posted... you can find them yourself.

#1: My 3rd tournament win - some hands
06/13/03 01:54 PM (by cferejohn) - only 13 hands, but close!!

#2: Two Tourney Reports in One
06/06/03 06:41 PM (by FeliciaLee) - didn't count the hands, but there are several


Anyway, I never asked for comments on all 15 hands, I just asked for a quick flame on my lame play. As for the hat, send me a PM and I'll give you my address.

Cheers.