Am I just giving my $s away? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Am I just giving my $s away?

Stealthy

11-16-2005, 09:20 AM

My first day playing $2 $4 after playing $1 $2 6 max for a few weeks. Am I giving too much action with these type of hands?

Hand 1

Vilain is 30/9/0.75 after 75 hands

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

Hand 2

Vilain in this hand is 61/1/1.3 after 70 hands

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (1.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (3.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Hand 3

No reads

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $2.
4 folds, Hero raises, MP3 (poster) calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

I am worried that I am spewing too much and need to nip it in the bud now I have moved up. Maybe it is just an adjustment moving from 6 Max to full-ring.

I feel that I tend to suspect players are making moves on me in heads up pots whereby perhaps I should assume they have a hand unless my reads and HUD stats tell me otherwise.

I suspect I lost too much money yesterday seeing mediocre hands to the end or trying to bluff whereby a quick check/fold or bet/fold was the correct action.

11-16-2005, 09:56 AM

Hand #1: If I get a call on the flop, I'm done. I'm checking it through/folding to a bet. Way, WAY too coordinated a board to pursue with a measly pair of nines.

jskills

11-16-2005, 10:33 AM

Hand 1: He called your flop bet. Betting the turn is not going to make him fold, given his stats. No more money should go in the pot after the flop.

Hand 2: The flop missed you completely. Betting the turn on a stone bluff is not a good move here - the pot is a 1.25 BB and you're putting in a full BB with nothing in your hand?

Hand 3: Fold the turn, he has a King.

I'd say you should try to put your "he's making a move on me" suspicions on the back burner for a while, if you're coming out of 6max into full ring.

RatFink

11-16-2005, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2
Vilain in this hand is 61/1/1.3 after 70 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

These players aren't the best to throw a bluff at.

private joker

11-16-2005, 03:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 3: Fold the turn, he has a King.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying he should call the flop raise in hopes of hitting a 2-outer, then fold when he misses it? Terrible.

Stealthy

11-16-2005, 03:42 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Hand 1. I am so used to betting the turn if I bet the flop (unless the board gets very bad) in the hope that they fold to the bigger bet. There are times that I should not be doing this. He had limped with K4 suited and MHING.

Hand 2: I have had mixed results firing at "unwanted" small pots but clearly need to pick my players better.

Hand 3: He did have the king which was obvious. I have limited success calling these down and an early fold I think is less -EV against the majority of opponents.

Only been playing limit for 4 weeks now so I am still reasonably happy with my progress.

ZootMurph

11-16-2005, 03:55 PM

Hand 1. Heads up, after the flop call, I don't see how you can take this further, unless you think he is on a draw or will fold a King or Queen here. When the turn Ace hits, I find it highly unlikely that you will get a fold from a King, so I'm checking it down.

Hand 2. Why are you calling the turn? It's a small pot, and you have nothing... don't try to win a pot that isn't worth winning. If anything, I would have bet at the flop, as in the BB you could have anything and may induce a fold from a better hand. But, with a tiny pot, I'm not bothering.

Hand 3. This is tough. There are so many things you could be up against here. I think you are behind the range of hands he could have, and without a read I'm probably going to 3 bet the flop. If he caps I can fold and save myself 1 1/2 BB. If he calls, I'll bet at the turn and fold to a raise. If he calls the turn, I'll check behind on the river or fold to a bet.

Stealthy

11-16-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2. Why are you calling the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't call. I bluffed at it. Picked up a pair of jacks on the river so value bet my hand but folded to the raise as I could only beat a bluff.

Walker

11-16-2005, 04:01 PM

I really don't like calling down in hand #3 against an unknown. I'd fold to the raise on the flop. I think he's auto betting the turn and you really don't have the odds to call the flop and fold the turn UI. I really don't think this is a spot where a loose flop call--in order to prevent observant opponents from taking shots at you--does any good.

Stealthy

11-16-2005, 04:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like calling down in hand #3 against an unknown. I'd fold to the raise on the flop. I think he's auto betting the turn and you really don't have the odds to call the flop and fold the turn UI. I really don't think this is a spot where a loose flop call--in order to prevent observant opponents from taking shots at you--does any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

TomBrooks

11-16-2005, 04:04 PM

I don't like the way you played 1 and 2.

3 you can fold to the flop raise unless your opponent raises with gutshots or middle pair after the raiser bets the flop with a King on the board. Not too many people like that around. Fold.

charlie_t_jr

11-16-2005, 04:24 PM

I play hand 1 the same.

Hand 2, I would've check/fold the turn.

Hand 3, without reads I a bit torn between c/f the turn(weak!), 3-betting the flop, or maybe better, c/r the turn, and playing it the way you did.

charlie_t_jr

11-16-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3. This is tough. There are so many things you could be up against here. I think you are behind the range of hands he could have, and without a read I'm probably going to 3 bet the flop. If he caps I can fold and save myself 1 1/2 BB. If he calls, I'll bet at the turn and fold to a raise. If he calls the turn, I'll check behind on the river or fold to a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line. Would calling flop and c/r turn be too fancy/expensive?

Stealthy

11-16-2005, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

3 you can fold to the flop raise unless your opponent raises with gutshots or middle pair after the raiser bets the flop with a King on the board. Not too many people like that around. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was looking for in posting this. Playing $1 $2 6 Max made me a natural cynic, although even then a lot of the time if it looked like a king, smelt like a king and tasted like a king, you know what ............

Even on a reasonably aggressive table which this was, are the vast majority of players not raising here without a king?

I guess cause I would raise in this spot with a middle pair in the pocket against the right players that I at least consider that others will do the same.

TomBrooks

11-16-2005, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3 you can fold to the flop raise unless your opponent raises with gutshots or middle pair after the raiser bets the flop with a King on the board. Not too many people like that around. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was looking for in posting this. Playing $1 $2 6 Max made me a natural cynic, although even then a lot of the time if it looked like a king, smelt like a king and tasted like a king, you know what ............

Even on a reasonably aggressive table which this was, are the vast majority of players not raising here without a king?

I guess cause I would raise in this spot with a middle pair in the pocket against the right players that I at least consider that others will do the same.

[/ QUOTE ]
Take what I say with a grain of salt, Stealthy. I only have about 3k hands at 2/4 and have only played when I find very soft games. But what I said is my experience so far, and I am winning a little. (1BB/100)

BTW, I would call this down after the flop raise without a read on a shorthand table also.

krimson

11-16-2005, 04:54 PM

Hand 1, I bet the flop, if he doesn't fold there i'm done with the hand.

Hand 2, I'd probably bet the turn with an ace, but not J2, pot is only offering us approximately 1:1. River is good.

Hand 3, I'd probably play it the same, but i'm in the same boat as you, coming out of 6max and don't trust anyone. I'm sure other poster's saying fold to the raise are likely correct.

BWebb

11-16-2005, 05:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hand 3: Fold the turn, he has a King.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying he should call the flop raise in hopes of hitting a 2-outer, then fold when he misses it? Terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is terrible. 3 reasons:
1) Also has a backdoor straight draw that's worth about 1 out.
2) I'm assuming the guy is unknown, so not necessarily sure he's only raising a king. A bet on the turn makes it easier to assume your beat.
3) Metagame reasons. Getting 10-1 with 3 outs and not knowing for sure you are behind, this spot is okay for a call since it's not hugely -EV.

silkyslim

11-16-2005, 05:14 PM

hand 1 is fine. hand 2 i check/fold. hand 3 i fold the flop or turn depending on if you care who sees you do what. The board is uncoordinated and the raise really smells strongly of a king.

UVaHoo

11-16-2005, 05:20 PM

I'm also done putting money in the pot in hand one after he calls the flop bet. You have to assume that the board would scare him somewhat after a preflop raise, and he's probably not calling with something worse than 99. If he is, he's definitely not going to bet it, so you can showdown cheaply.

Hand 2 - Varies by player, though this guy seems likely to call...just too small a pot, especially with the rake factored in.

Hand 3 - I hate playing hands like this too, and too frequently call down and lose to the King. On a more coordinated board that he could be raising a draw, I might be more inclined to call down or c/r the turn. However, with the rainbow, unconnected board, I'm folding to the flop raise, or at most, calling the small bet and folding to a turn bet.

ErrantNight

11-16-2005, 05:38 PM