Learning a foreign language

[The Truth]

I am traveling starting in January, and I was wondering if it would be possible for me to be come fluent in 1 or 2 different languages on my journey.

So, I need to know what is feasible in terms of time it takes to learn a language. I have taken a couple courses in spanish and a couple courses in german. I speak spanish fairly well (conversational), but my german is horrible (I can do the basics). So that is the extent of my current foriegn language experience. However, I imagine immersion is key to becoming fluent.

So, assuming I study up on the language before I enter a new culture. This will involve buying a book like teach yourself french in 24 hours. You know the type. Also, I'll get an additional book on tape to listen through.
2 books of prerequisite knowledge.

After this, I'll sojourn in an area that speaks the given language for a period of ~2 months. Doing my best to be maintain complete immersion in the culture and language.


I want to pick up at least 2 languages. I was thinking French and Hindi.

As for why I picked Hindi and French, I was hoping to stay in paris and play at the aviators club fairly often. I figure 2 months there playing at the aviators club 3-5 times a week, and talking with those guys in french should give me a chance. Plus daily life activites.

No real reason for Hindi, just thought I would stay in India for a spell, and since that is the most common of their many dialects or at least most widely spoken of of any of the modern indic vernaculars, it would be the best choice.

So, am I off my rocker. Is 2 months way not enough time? Is 2 months too much time? Is 2 months a reachable but tough goal?

what ya think?

blake

[housenuts]

no way you'll be fluent, but you'll be able to get by

[kenberman]

there's about as much casual conversation at an ACF poker table as there is at an American poker table - not that much. plus, the vocab/phrases used are pretty limited.

anyway, 2 months isn't enough. I'd say that if you were paying to take a daily class, then you could become very good in 6 months. in 2 months, you'll learn some phrases, but still have trouble understanding native speakers.

as for Hindu, it will take much longer, since it bears no resemblence to any language you have previously studied. you'll have to start w/ a new alphabet. I'm not sure how much longer, but at least a couple more months.

the trouble with immersion is that if you start with zero knowledge of French, listening to French people speak to each other will just be complete gibberish. you need to start w/ some level of understanding.

OT: you'll be bored silly playing at the ACF 3-5 times a week.

[JackWilson]

2 Months of total immersion can get you pretty far if you're naturally gifted and you study a bit beforehand. From experience I'd say this could get you to a 13-year old's understanding of grammar (thought this will only come with STUDY) and conversational ability, but with serious problems in terms of vocabulary, pronunciation and the ability to understand native language speakers with an accent.

[kurosh]

I know a guy who learned fluent French in 6 weeks. He lived with a host family and had 4? hours of private tutoring every day.

I think it is awesome that you are doing this!

I have had formalized language training and various self-study programs. In general, two months will give you a good foundation for further learning but will rarely give you anything beyond formulated conversations (Where is the bus station? It is two blocks west, etc.). With a structured language program and a lot of work two months can give you a little bit more than this in easier languages (French, for example).

Grammar is the key. A language with easy to grasp grammar (e.g. French) is much easier to excel at and become capable in faster than a more difficult language (e.g. Hindi). French is not easy, but it is MUCH easier than Hindi. I have a friend who took formal Hindi training and said it was the hardest thing he ever had to do.

Once you have basic grammatical concepts down (pronunciation, sentence structure, tenses and cases) immersion is key to build vocabulary. Try to get the grammar before you focus on vocab. I know this is less fun than learning new words but it is so much more important and I cannot stress pronunciation enough. This is also difficult to do because so many of the learn [Insert Language Here] books focus on vocab vs. grammar.

A key companion to immersion is having someone that can explain things to you when you do not understand. Blunt force immersion is not as effective as having someone that can explain difficulties to you in your native language. You need both.

Since you have some Spanish and German knowledge I think French is a great choice. I think Hindi might be a little too daunting. I spent a week in India. I wouldn’t recommend an extended stay there for many reasons (but you do have to see the Taj Mahal before you die), many people speak English, you have to learn a new alphabet, and I think there are more useful languages to learn.

Again, good luck and feel free to PM me if you would like some more info.

[InchoateHand]

[The Truth]

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I think it is awesome that you are doing this!

I have had formalized language training and various self-study programs. In general, two months will give you a good foundation for further learning but will rarely give you anything beyond formulated conversations (Where is the bus station? It is two blocks west, etc.). With a structured language program and a lot of work two months can give you a little bit more than this in easier languages (French, for example).

Grammar is the key. A language with easy to grasp grammar (e.g. French) is much easier to excel at and become capable in faster than a more difficult language (e.g. Hindi). French is not easy, but it is MUCH easier than Hindi. I have a friend who took formal Hindi training and said it was the hardest thing he ever had to do.

Once you have basic grammatical concepts down (pronunciation, sentence structure, tenses and cases) immersion is key to build vocabulary. Try to get the grammar before you focus on vocab. I know this is less fun than learning new words but it is so much more important and I cannot stress pronunciation enough. This is also difficult to do because so many of the learn [Insert Language Here] books focus on vocab vs. grammar.

A key companion to immersion is having someone that can explain things to you when you do not understand. Blunt force immersion is not as effective as having someone that can explain difficulties to you in your native language. You need both.

Since you have some Spanish and German knowledge I think French is a great choice. I think Hindi might be a little too daunting. I spent a week in India. I wouldn’t recommend an extended stay there for many reasons (but you do have to see the Taj Mahal before you die), many people speak English, you have to learn a new alphabet, and I think there are more useful languages to learn.

Again, good luck and feel free to PM me if you would like some more info.

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You are an awesome poster! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'll most likely be contacting you later.

thanks for the imput

blake

[splashpot]

I lived in Hong Kong for 9 months without knowing any Cantonese beforehand. My Cantonese now still sucks. However, this is probably due to the fact that 90% of people in Hong Kong speak English and I relied on that too much. Still 2 months isn't gonna cut it. Yea, you'll be speaking the language everyday, but you won't want to be studying it hardcore. You'll want to see the sights, explore the cities, and have fun.

[Dr. Strangelove]

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To the OP: Highly variable, but sounds like a lot of fun and the effort you put in beforehand will certainly pay off once you are en route.

To loyalguard:

WTF...."I wouldn't recommend spending an extended time there for many reasons." Thats nice. And irrelevant.

"I think there are more useful languages to learn."

Like French?

"But you have to see the Taj Mahal before you die."

Okay...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, like french. If you speak french and english you can speak to just about anybody in Europe, and lots of other places as well. If you can speak hindi, so what, everyone speaks english there already.

Really useful languages to know in my opinion: English, Mandarin, French, Arabic, Spanish, German.

[daryn]

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If you can speak German, so what, everyone speaks english there already.


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[BoogerFace]

It's probably doable if you were willing to do something like this (http://www.bostonlanguage.com/fl/immersion.htm) and you are talented with languages. I tried their Japanese class - it was pretty good and met on Saturday mornings but I didn't really have time to study like I should have.

Totally undoable if you can only devote an hour a day to study/practice.

[xadrez]

Honestly, trying to learn two new languages in a couple months is a huge stretch. Instead I would concentrate on the 2 you already know, Spanish and German.

Your prior knowledge + a two month immersion would be infintely more productive and likely get you to be an advanced speaker.

[Dr. Strangelove]

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If you can speak German, so what, everyone speaks english there already.


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Ya that's why it was last on the list.

[daryn]

wow, nice site. i will be checking this joint out for some mandarin action

Seeing as you are familiar with Spanish, this should make learning French considerably easier. However it is not realistic to expect to gain fluency in 2 months. especially starting from ground zero. Hindi will present a whole new set of problems. I strongly recomend you familiarize yourself with the letters before hand. I have taken two years of Arabic in College in the states, and spent some time in the middle east. Much of my time there has been spent in beirut, where most people speak some english, and all the 20somethings speak alot of english. 2 2 month stints there did little for my arabic, but that was largely to to the copious amount of partying i did. I am now midway through a 2.5 month stint in Damascus, and this has been quite benefitial to my arabic. However, i am faaaaaar from fluent, and i have had two year of the language in the states. The major problem here though is the dialect on the streets barely resembles the formal arabic i have learned in school.
My council would be this. If the chief reason for your travel is to pick up a language, focus on one rather then two. and don't set a 2 month time limit for learning a language. Also, fluency is a tricky word. after two months in France, particularily with a background in romance languages, you should be able to take care of the neccesities in french, and maybee even be able to horribl;y offend the locals with talk of politics should you so choose. If you want to see the world, and learn the languages while you are at it, go for two. know that as you learn the second one, particularily if it is hini, you will loose some of the first one. i took spanish in highschool, and when i try to speak it now, i end up throwing in arabic by accident. Also, very important, hire a private language tutor hwereever you go. they will be readily available. finding a good tutor may take a couple tries, but you should be able to find one who you can pay by the lesson. This is the best way to facilitate learning a language while in a foreign country. in india, you may be able to find a "language exchange" where you help the person with english, and they help you with hindi.

[swede123]

Don't back down to the pressure. Make the foreign bastards learn English.

Swede

[BoogerFace]

Do check it out, their classes are excellent.

[theBruiser500]

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wow, nice site. i will be checking this joint out for some mandarin action

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you are so capricious

[theBruiser500]

if you are trying to learn the language, maybe it would be better to go a more rural part of a country that way you really are immersed. in the city people will probably speak a lot of english and your conversations will be in english a lot, not foricng you to learn. what do people think of this?

also, try learning as much as you can before hand. like someone said earlier you need a foundation before you go or it will all be gibberish. i was in nepal for 3 weeks and tried to learn the language but failed hopelessly. nothing made any sense, there was no way for me to start picking up any words without a base of knowledge. goodluck with your trip Truth, will expect a trip report.

[daryn]

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wow, nice site. i will be checking this joint out for some mandarin action

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you are so capricious

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no doubt about that

[Vish]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are trying to learn the language, maybe it would be better to go a more rural part of a country that way you really are immersed. in the city people will probably speak a lot of english and your conversations will be in english a lot, not foricng you to learn. what do people think of this?

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This is pretty true. In France, people tend to be pretty proud of whatever English they have, just like Americans are proud if they know a little French. They'll want to "practice" (read: show off) their English, especially if they're young and know a good amount. Older people are more likely to either not know or not care to speak English.

I had the same experience you're planning (two months in France, and I'm about to have 2 in India). I knew a little french from school. I learned a lot in the two months, mostly from the immersion course I took. If you take a class, make sure the instructor doesn't allow you to speak English. That's cheating, and will get you nowhere. After two months, you won't be anywhere near fluent, but you should be able to have basic conversations. I was able to do all the necessary stuff at the end: eat at a restaurant, buy train tickets, talk to real estate agents/landlords, converse with friends, see a movie without subtitles and get most of it. Philosophical conversations are tough though, and my hearing and speaking are way behind my reading and writing.

India shouldn't be a problem for getting by. Indians speak half in English even amongnst themselves. They'll speak only in English with you. This will make it pretty hard to learn Hindi. You should have a strong motivation to learn it, so you can get through the trials: i.e., a fascination with the culture, the movies, literature; a desire to live there; business reasons, etc. But this is true of mastering anything.