AQs flops the nut flush draw

[octop]

I just got back from a 2 week Vegas trip where I did pretty well overall but this hand bothers me
2/5 NL at the Wynn my first orbit at the table
I have 475 ` and my opponents have me covered
One limper, I raise on the cutoff to 25 with AQ hearts, the blinds call and the limper folds.
Flop 346 2 hearts.
SB bets 50 BB calls I should..

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
I should..

[/ QUOTE ]
...tell us what you raised to preflop.

Assuming it was to 20-25, I call the flop. If you make any substantial raise, you're committed to putting all your chips in and you won't be a favorite.

[The Truth]

Yea, I like just calling.

Just get there and then get chips in the pot.

blake

[durrrr]

calling and shoving are both fine. Unless you know they are very passive a non/pushing raise isnt an option.

[flawless_victory]

i would go all in w/out a specific read that made calling superior.

[BobboFitos]

I would call

[Mark1808]

My old style would just call, but either I would not end up with the best hand or I would get no action if the flush comes. By raising occasionally on draws it makes your hands not as readable and may give you action later when you have a made hand. So, if you have been quiet at this table lately a raise of around $100 may take the pot right here, if not you have position and outs.

[thabadguy]

I think both calling and shoving are fine in such a situation.
Another consideration in such a case is, are you the kind of player who if doubles up in a capped buyin game, can just [censored] the table...like just rape it
I am willing to take gamble early on in my session in a capped buyin game, even if it was somewhat -ev.
If the game was a no cap buyin then i would be more apt to call, if the game is a capped buyin, then i would shove in hopes of doubling up, so i could cover table.

[Mackerel]

[ QUOTE ]
i would go all in w/out a specific read that made calling superior.

[/ QUOTE ]

[technologic]

[ QUOTE ]
I think both calling and shoving are fine in such a situation.
Another consideration in such a case is, are you the kind of player who if doubles up in a capped buyin game, can just [censored] the table...like just rape it
I am willing to take gamble early on in my session in a capped buyin game, even if it was somewhat -ev.
If the game was a no cap buyin then i would be more apt to call, if the game is a capped buyin, then i would shove in hopes of doubling up, so i could cover table.

[/ QUOTE ]

the wynn is no cap buy in

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I would call

[/ QUOTE ]

Im actually going to go a step further and say calling is much better then pushing, to those that say this is "yawn, easy push" I think are just looking at relative draw strength and the typical situation that is being encountered and not really looking at the details of the hand.

I unfortunately have to run out,I'll give my reasoning later.

all your cards seem live, push. calling makes your hand too obvious therefore zeros your chances of getting paid off when hitting your flush. an ace can possibly get you in trouble w/ the bb (ace-rag) here, you need to push him out. i'm guessing pocket pr for the sb.

when i said push, i really meant make it $200. $400 looks kinda fishy.

[BobboFitos]

I think pushing isn't as good as calling, although it's pos EV, (so obv much better then folding!) because...

on this texture, for someone to lead out, it doesn't "mean" they have a combo draw or 2pair+, but the small range of folding equity you have when pushing your coinflip type draw vs a leader out into pfr and cold caller is low.

So, when called, you figure to be a cointoss, and you figure to be called alot, which does trap some dead money, therefore is pos EV, but not by a wide margin.

Also, small range of hands that may fold (6x, certain small overpairs) are kinda limited; what is everyone putting the cold caller on?

When you call, you are able to play the turn w/ position and you have a nut draw... Someone said you wont be paid off on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif this is hardly the case, often someone can have smaller heart draw which is the beauty of the NFD anyway. Allow them to put money in drawing dead.

See, about folding equity earlier, even if you have what you're representing, (Like KK, QQ, etc.) too many hands will be obligated to call even knowing this. add in the possibility of a live player calling everything with something like A6, (which even has you reverse dominated!) hoping to pick off a bluff or the hand you have, and you just cant garner too much folds.

Also, by calling, you still may get a free river, as if lead out has a hand like 65 or 45 they will slow down called in two spots, so you could still see cheap river.

Plus, if A or Q hits, you can more adaquetly protect your hand vs 5x or smaller pair etc.

Anyway, I feel this is a clear call, with a non nut flush draw (Say, JT/images/graemlins/heart.gif) this spot I think a push is better, but it's much closer.

[octop]

I wouldnt say I could rape the table if I doubled up, but thw Wynn is uncapped anyway. If this was mandalay bays shortstacked 2/4 200 game Id happily gable early to double up.
Anyway I popped it to 150
SB goes all in and the BB calls.
So much for fold equity. I have to call this right? 300 to win 1125 in the pot.
I was obviously trying to represent an overpair here which I think was the right move against one player, but I have have been wrong against 2 players because I basically pot commited myself if I oculdnt get them both to fold and unless one of them had a 99 type of hand I was getting my stack in with the worst of it.
So to make matters worse I folded to the all ins figuring there was alteast one set out there, and it was possible there was also a monster straight/flush draw out there reducing my outs further. How bad did i [censored] this hand up?

[JMa]

Board: 3h 4h 6d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 25.6183 % 25.47% 00.15% { AhQh }
Hand 2: 35.6958 % 35.55% 00.15% { 4c4d }
Hand 3: 38.6859 % 38.54% 00.15% { 7d5s }


with 11:3 id beat them in the pot

[SunOfBeach]

this post was just great...

[LondonBroil]

[ QUOTE ]
How bad did i [censored] this hand up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not bad at all, except for the whole folding part, which was horrible.

[octop]

Yea folding was a horrific
I think raising could be correct because of the fold equity
As it turned out they had 64 and 63 respectively and I had a lot of fun at this table over the next few hours
I know folding was awful the real question was whether or not raisng the flop was correct

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea folding was a horrific
I think raising could be correct because of the fold equity
As it turned out they had 64 and 63 respectively and I had a lot of fun at this table over the next few hours
I know folding was awful the real question was whether or not raisng the flop was correct

[/ QUOTE ]

folding was bad

pushing would be ok

calling would be best. i win.