Splitting the bill.

[fluxrad]

I was in speech class tonight and one of the girls did her pursuasive speech on courtesy and politeness. Most of her suggestions were standard fare: don't park like an [censored]; cleanup your dog's [censored]; let the people with two items through in the line if you've got a cart-full. But her last suggestion got me. It was as follows: if you've just been out for dinner or drinks with friends, you should always add 20% on the bill and split it evenly between the total number of diners. Her logic was that, in the end, cost evens out (at one point, she suggested something along the lines of "If one of your friends ate more, maybe next time you're out you can order the steak and a glass of wine.")

I couldn't disagree more. Now if everyone's total came to approximately the same, I can certainly see a case for simply splitting the bill. But I don't think it's right, for example, to try to split a $100 bill among 5 people when one guy may have ordered $10 worth of food and drinks while another ordered $30. At least when my GF and I go out with our friends we always split the bill based on who had what. Sure, it creates a bit of work for our waiter or waitress, but we always tip well and no one gets the shaft when it comes to paying for my $20 steak au poivre. Am I wrong here?

Of course, there is the third way (and in my mind, a way that is at least as equitable as the first option with the added benefit of keeping everyone from splurging). We did this once, but my friends copped out after that because of the fear of...idunno: At the end of the meal, everyone throws their credit card into a hat. The leader then holds the hat above head level and shakes the cards up. When the waiter/waitress comes by to collect the bill, the hat is held above their head and they select one card at random. Loser pays...

So of these three, what's the best way to pay the bill?

[EMcWilliams]

I like the CC in the hat idea. It gives all incentive to order a moderate meal, and adds a sense of gamble to it.

[SackUp]

If it is close then just split it if among good friends.

If it is with randoms and not close then pay your own. I have no problem with putting a little extra in though.

The worst is when everyone pays their own and fools do not know how to add. Tip and Tax can be mystical things to so many smart people...that our they are just cheap bastards!

[Derek in NYC]

In the post-college real world, among friends, there's even this concept of not splitting the bill at all. As in "I'll get this one."

[daryn]

pay for what you ordered. it's not hard, it's simple math.

i am a BIG proponent of the "credit card game" as i call it. usually what we do is get all the credit cards.. say 3 or 4. one person shuffles them under the table, then lines them up with each other (still under the table), top = 1 all the way down to bottom = n where n = # of cards. then the waitress is asked to pick a # between 1 and n, and there you have it.

best way to pay hands down.. but, if your friends aren't gamblors... just pay for what you ordered!

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
In the post-college real world, among friends, there's even this concept of not splitting the bill at all. As in "I'll get this one."

[/ QUOTE ]

this has never been done with any of my friends, and they are all even older than me, early 30's... the only time something like this is done is if one of us helps the other guy move or something, or does him a favor that he appreciates,.. he will say this the next time we go out or something.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the CC in the hat idea. It gives all incentive to order a moderate meal,

[/ QUOTE ]


huh? how does it give anyone incentive to order a moderate meal?? if anything i want to splurge

"I'll get this one" is the way things should go. Grown men splitting the bill should not happen.

Options 1 and 3 are just near-random ways of accomplishing option 2. Go with option 2 and skip the bullshiz morans

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'll get this one" is the way things should go. Grown men splitting the bill should not happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree. pay for what you ordered

The Costanza is strong in this thread, I sense it

[TheMainEvent]

I don't mind splitting it evenly but if someone is going to suggest that it had better not be the guy who orders 5 drinks, an appetizer, and the most expensive entree. God I hate when people do that [censored].

[DasLeben]

I think that it depends on the situation. If your server is busy and working a full section, it is VERY much appreciated if you simply pay together. Me standing in the corner counting out change and running credit cards for 5 minutes while splitting 9 checks is just not a fun thing to do when I've got 4 other tables that want stuff. Then again, you did say that you tip well, so I couldn't really complain.

If you do pay separately, it's much nicer to your server to simply work things out yourself with cash before he/she gets back, and then give them the check presenter with the tip already included. "We don't need change" is a phrase that is always appreciated.

You do need the change. The change adds up. It adds up a lot.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
You do need the change. The change adds up. It adds up a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's not really what I meant. If the bill was $25 and you toss me $30 and say "I don't need change," it's a good thing.

The change isnt in addition to the tip though, is it?

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
The change isnt in addition to the tip though, is it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's how I'm seeing it: If the bill is $30 and you give me two $20 bills and say "I don't need change," I keep that extra $10 that I would have given you back, which is now my tip. Obviously that's a pretty damn good tip, but you get the jist.

[TheMainEvent]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that it depends on the situation. If your server is busy and working a full section, it is VERY much appreciated if you simply pay together. Me standing in the corner counting out change and running credit cards for 5 minutes while splitting 9 checks is just not a fun thing to do when I've got 4 other tables that want stuff. Then again, you did say that you tip well, so I couldn't really complain.

If you do pay separately, it's much nicer to your server to simply work things out yourself with cash before he/she gets back, and then give them the check presenter with the tip already included. "We don't need change" is a phrase that is always appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do I care about the server? If we're courteous and give a good tip I'm not going to worry about making a little bit of extra work for him.

I'd tip myself that amount for even considering to tip that much

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
What do I care about the server? If we're courteous and give a good tip I'm not going to worry about making a little bit of extra work for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, if you're nice and you tip well, I'm not going to complain about splitting checks. I'm just pointing out that it's just a nice gesture if his/her section is slammed and you have a bunch of separate checks, that's all.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd tip myself that amount for even considering to tip that much

[/ QUOTE ]

Well as I said, that's a pretty damn good tip. It's happened before, but not very often at all. I was just trying to make a point.

[kurosh]

I pick up the check for the following reasons:
It is with my gf.
It is a special occasion or I have a specific reason to be thankful to them.
The amount of money is significant to them, but not to me. I am college-aged so a lot of my friends have no money, but $5 doesn't mean [censored] to me, so I'll just pick it up.

Otherwise, I don't see a reason to pay for their food.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

What me/friends have been doing lately is having me pay on a CC/Debit and then taking the receipt and adding it to each of their tabs.

Unless I'm drunk, then I always pay for everyone.

[rocketlaunch]

As a vegetarian who also doesn't drink, I hate the splitting the bill evenly idea.

Do people really get separate checks for five or so people? Most times I've been out, we usually have one check and people are able to figure out what they owe and throw it in.

[The Truth]

If its just me and 1 of my buddies we usually flip a coin to see who pays.

Fun, neutral EV, draws attention from hot bitches.

They love it.


blake

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
As a vegetarian who also doesn't drink, I hate the splitting the bill evenly idea.

Do people really get separate checks for five or so people? Most times I've been out, we usually have one check and people are able to figure out what they owe and throw it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

ding

[phil_ivey_fan]

The only time I'd consider the roulette idea is when its between me and a group of guy friends (all of whom have jobs and $200 isn't much of anybody's back). This only goes for nights where the meal and drinks are pregaming (usually at a mexican restaurant).

This scenerio has been going on with my older friends who've graduated in the past 2 years and I will most likely be joining them in the next two months.

It works out in the long run and plus the loser has his drinks paid for the rest of the night by the rest of the guys.

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the CC in the hat idea. It gives all incentive to order a moderate meal,

[/ QUOTE ]


huh? how does it give anyone incentive to order a moderate meal?? if anything i want to splurge

[/ QUOTE ]

this reminds me of the prisoners dilemna. One guy splurging makes another guy want to splurge, until everyone gets the most expensive meal on the menu.

[Voltron87]

This all shouldn't be this complicated. When the check comes, do some simple arithmetic and figure out who owes what. With my good friends I am fine with splitting the food bill if it's a 5$ difference between them all but we take the drinks out of the equation because that tends to throw things off balance. Someone just owes it to someone for next time.

I really like the CC in a hat idea, but most of my friends I eat with regularly aren't gamblers.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the CC in the hat idea. It gives all incentive to order a moderate meal,

[/ QUOTE ]


huh? how does it give anyone incentive to order a moderate meal?? if anything i want to splurge

[/ QUOTE ]

this reminds me of the prisoners dilemna. One guy splurging makes another guy want to splurge, until everyone gets the most expensive meal on the menu.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya ev wise whoever gets the most expensive dinner wins with the credit card game. It ends up being the same as everybody splitting evenly.

[PokerFink]

How hard is it to look at the bill and cut it up five or six ways based on what people ordered? It's simple arithmatic, and who cares if someone gets shorted three bucks.

Edit: I like the CC in the hat idea. All my buddies gamble, I'll suggest that next time.

[StevieG]

I have circles of friends with which I know for sure whether splitting the bill will result in either more than enough for a good tip, and other circles of friends where it always takes another go-round of chiseling bills from people's wallets.

How people can't remember tax, tip, and the appetizers we ordered for the table, I don't know.

But I do know which group of friends I would rather go out to dinner with, and which I prefer to just invite over to the house for dinner.

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
How people can't remember tax, tip, and the appetizers we ordered for the table, I don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

they remember.

[4_2_it]

At the company I started my career we used to do the CC in a hat routine for each Friday's lunch.

[tonypaladino]

I can't stand when people don't want to just do it simply. Add a tip, split the bill, that's it. If I had a few more drinks than anyone else, I'll throw in a little extra. Just keep it simple. The point of going out to eat with friends is to have a good time, not to nitpick. Whenever I'm with people who insist on divying up the check proportionatly, somehow, the waitress winds up getting shorted on a tip and I wind up having to throw in an extra $10 so she doens't get stiffed.

Stop being so [censored] cheap.

Edit: And the real simple way, if you eat out with the same gorup of people a lot, is just have someone pay each time. I do this with a couple of friends all the time. One night I'll take care of it, another one of them will. It's so simple.

[IndieMatty]

After college with friends or with work people,it is merely a choice of "split evenly", picking it up as a friendly act or credit card roullette. Anything else is lame. If a friend abuses the "split evenly", realize you have testicles and tell him to quit it.

[B Dids]

If the place will do seperate checks, I do that. Otherwise I prefer an even split. My friends and I eat out often enough that the different is marginal.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't stand when people don't want to just do it simply. Add a tip, split the bill, that's it. If I had a few more drinks than anyone else, I'll throw in a little extra. Just keep it simple. The point of going out to eat with friends is to have a good time, not to nitpick. Whenever I'm with people who insist on divying up the check proportionatly, somehow, the waitress winds up getting shorted on a tip and I wind up having to throw in an extra $10 so she doens't get stiffed.

Stop being so [censored] cheap.

Edit: And the real simple way, if you eat out with the same gorup of people a lot, is just have someone pay each time. I do this with a couple of friends all the time. One night I'll take care of it, another one of them will. It's so simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

first of all, it's not about nitpicking, when we go out, all of my friends simply take turns looking at the bill and paying what they owe. nobody is going around telling everyone to put in this and that, it's just that everyone understands the concept of paying for what they ordered. it's not a hard concept to grasp.

secondly, maybe it's just because i like to hang out with intelligent poeple, but the bill is never short, and is almost always too much, resulting in a huge tip.

The people who don't want to chop it up are nits who order soup and salad at the steak place and prefer water to sharing a bottle of wine. They are also the people who will "forget" the tax and tip when everyone is asked to throw in. If it is a social occasion it will be a lot more fun if everyone orders/eats in the same spirit... and this will make chopping the bill equitable as well.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
first of all, it's not about nitpicking, when we go out, all of my friends simply take turns looking at the bill and paying what they owe. nobody is going around telling everyone to put in this and that, it's just that everyone understands the concept of paying for what they ordered. it's not a hard concept to grasp.

secondly, maybe it's just because i like to hang out with intelligent poeple, but the bill is never short, and is almost always too much, resulting in a huge tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize this is not normal right? If you go out to dinner with two people, and one of them has a beer, do you go through the effort to figure out that he owes $3.00 more than the other two who ordered cokes? I realize it is not that much effort, but it just seems so petty.

Daryn: Ok, I owe $23.50
Friend 1: Ok, I owe $24.25, I got a diet coke.
Friend 2 (the drinker): Well, I got a beer, so it comes to $27.00

Isn't it easier for everyone to just throw $25 and leave?

[PokerFink]

Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]


you realize this is not normal right? If you go out to dinner with two people, and one of them has a beer, do you go through the effort to figure out that he owes $3.00 more than the other two who ordered cokes? I realize it is not that much effort, but it just seems so petty.

Daryn: Ok, I owe $23.50
Friend 1: Ok, I owe $24.25, I got a diet coke.
Friend 2 (the drinker): Well, I got a beer, so it comes to $27.00

Isn't it easier for everyone to just throw $25 and leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't make any kind of effort to tell anyone what they owe. i just look at the bill and put in what i owe. it seems so simple to me to glance at the bill and quickly arrive at an amount of cash i am putting in.

by the way, i usually overtip anyway, so if i found that i owed $23.50, i would just put in $25, or if i had 4 1's, $24.

[jesusarenque]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first of all, it's not about nitpicking, when we go out, all of my friends simply take turns looking at the bill and paying what they owe. nobody is going around telling everyone to put in this and that, it's just that everyone understands the concept of paying for what they ordered. it's not a hard concept to grasp.

secondly, maybe it's just because i like to hang out with intelligent poeple, but the bill is never short, and is almost always too much, resulting in a huge tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize this is not normal right? If you go out to dinner with two people, and one of them has a beer, do you go through the effort to figure out that he owes $3.00 more than the other two who ordered cokes? I realize it is not that much effort, but it just seems so petty.

Daryn: Ok, I owe $23.50
Friend 1: Ok, I owe $24.25, I got a diet coke.
Friend 2 (the drinker): Well, I got a beer, so it comes to $27.00

Isn't it easier for everyone to just throw $25 and leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't ever go out to eat with anyone who would order a coke or just water with his meal. That is weird.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first of all, it's not about nitpicking, when we go out, all of my friends simply take turns looking at the bill and paying what they owe. nobody is going around telling everyone to put in this and that, it's just that everyone understands the concept of paying for what they ordered. it's not a hard concept to grasp.

secondly, maybe it's just because i like to hang out with intelligent poeple, but the bill is never short, and is almost always too much, resulting in a huge tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize this is not normal right? If you go out to dinner with two people, and one of them has a beer, do you go through the effort to figure out that he owes $3.00 more than the other two who ordered cokes? I realize it is not that much effort, but it just seems so petty.

Daryn: Ok, I owe $23.50
Friend 1: Ok, I owe $24.25, I got a diet coke.
Friend 2 (the drinker): Well, I got a beer, so it comes to $27.00

Isn't it easier for everyone to just throw $25 and leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention, who keeps that level of exact change on them? Do you make the waitress come back with a bunch of quarters? Or do you do the dreaded "OK hon, $23.50 on THIS credit card, $27.00 on THAT credit card"? If everyone just overpays and leaves the extra as a tip, wouldn't it be OK to just split it three ways anyway (assuming you used an already healthy % when doing the initial figuring)?

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

The salad person is lame and probably shouldn't be going out to eat? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on here, yes situations arise. Again, among the post college crowd if something like this happens someone usually steps up "dude just take care of the tip, I got the meal" or "get me a few beers at the bar" . This should be an automatic gesture, one would assume you are breaking bread with someone you are friendly with and you wouldn't mind spending an extra 8 bucks on them.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

The salad person is lame and probably shouldn't be going out to eat? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Um.... let's say she's a chick. And she's going to blow you later. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I dunno. You get my point though.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first of all, it's not about nitpicking, when we go out, all of my friends simply take turns looking at the bill and paying what they owe. nobody is going around telling everyone to put in this and that, it's just that everyone understands the concept of paying for what they ordered. it's not a hard concept to grasp.

secondly, maybe it's just because i like to hang out with intelligent poeple, but the bill is never short, and is almost always too much, resulting in a huge tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize this is not normal right? If you go out to dinner with two people, and one of them has a beer, do you go through the effort to figure out that he owes $3.00 more than the other two who ordered cokes? I realize it is not that much effort, but it just seems so petty.

Daryn: Ok, I owe $23.50
Friend 1: Ok, I owe $24.25, I got a diet coke.
Friend 2 (the drinker): Well, I got a beer, so it comes to $27.00

Isn't it easier for everyone to just throw $25 and leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't ever go out to eat with anyone who would order a coke or just water with his meal. That is weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, i think it's weird that you won't eat with anyone who likes water.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first of all, it's not about nitpicking, when we go out, all of my friends simply take turns looking at the bill and paying what they owe. nobody is going around telling everyone to put in this and that, it's just that everyone understands the concept of paying for what they ordered. it's not a hard concept to grasp.

secondly, maybe it's just because i like to hang out with intelligent poeple, but the bill is never short, and is almost always too much, resulting in a huge tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize this is not normal right? If you go out to dinner with two people, and one of them has a beer, do you go through the effort to figure out that he owes $3.00 more than the other two who ordered cokes? I realize it is not that much effort, but it just seems so petty.

Daryn: Ok, I owe $23.50
Friend 1: Ok, I owe $24.25, I got a diet coke.
Friend 2 (the drinker): Well, I got a beer, so it comes to $27.00

Isn't it easier for everyone to just throw $25 and leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention, who keeps that level of exact change on them? Do you make the waitress come back with a bunch of quarters? Or do you do the dreaded "OK hon, $23.50 on THIS credit card, $27.00 on THAT credit card"? If everyone just overpays and leaves the extra as a tip, wouldn't it be OK to just split it three ways anyway (assuming you used an already healthy % when doing the initial figuring)?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i've never in my life had the bill split between credit cards. usually what happens is one guy puts it on his credit card and then everyone pays that guy.. either right then or whenever. sometimes we gamble for it later.

[swede123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

The salad person is lame and probably shouldn't be going out to eat? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Um.... let's say she's a chick. And she's going to blow you later. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I dunno. You get my point though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly hope you'd fork out the five bucks for the bitch's salad and water, for some quality head. Hell, I'd even ask if she wanted desert.

Swede

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on here, yes situations arise. Again, among the post college crowd if something like this happens someone usually steps up "dude just take care of the tip, I got the meal" or "get me a few beers at the bar" . This should be an automatic gesture, one would assume you are breaking bread with someone you are friendly with and you wouldn't mind spending an extra 8 bucks on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone keeps mentioning college.. i have no idea how that matters somehow. what if none of my friends went to college?

[PokerFink]

Touche.

I can see that I'm not going to win this one. I concede.

(For the record, I'm not a nit. I'm could care less if I get stiffed five bucks at dinner, and I'm usually the one who throws in my extra ones to pad the tip. But many of my friends, especially the females, are not like this.)

[jesusarenque]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first of all, it's not about nitpicking, when we go out, all of my friends simply take turns looking at the bill and paying what they owe. nobody is going around telling everyone to put in this and that, it's just that everyone understands the concept of paying for what they ordered. it's not a hard concept to grasp.

secondly, maybe it's just because i like to hang out with intelligent poeple, but the bill is never short, and is almost always too much, resulting in a huge tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize this is not normal right? If you go out to dinner with two people, and one of them has a beer, do you go through the effort to figure out that he owes $3.00 more than the other two who ordered cokes? I realize it is not that much effort, but it just seems so petty.

Daryn: Ok, I owe $23.50
Friend 1: Ok, I owe $24.25, I got a diet coke.
Friend 2 (the drinker): Well, I got a beer, so it comes to $27.00

Isn't it easier for everyone to just throw $25 and leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't ever go out to eat with anyone who would order a coke or just water with his meal. That is weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, i think it's weird that you won't eat with anyone who likes water.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean I refuse to eat with him/her. I just don't have any friends who drink ONLY water with the meal. Everyone gets beer or wine (along with water).

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on here, yes situations arise. Again, among the post college crowd if something like this happens someone usually steps up "dude just take care of the tip, I got the meal" or "get me a few beers at the bar" . This should be an automatic gesture, one would assume you are breaking bread with someone you are friendly with and you wouldn't mind spending an extra 8 bucks on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone keeps mentioning college.. i have no idea how that matters somehow. what if none of my friends went to college?

[/ QUOTE ]

We mean, when people have jobs and are older. I also forget that you are only like 23 right?

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on here, yes situations arise. Again, among the post college crowd if something like this happens someone usually steps up "dude just take care of the tip, I got the meal" or "get me a few beers at the bar" . This should be an automatic gesture, one would assume you are breaking bread with someone you are friendly with and you wouldn't mind spending an extra 8 bucks on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone keeps mentioning college.. i have no idea how that matters somehow. what if none of my friends went to college?

[/ QUOTE ]

We mean, when people have jobs and are older. I also forget that you are only like 23 right?

[/ QUOTE ]

i am 25 but as i mentioned most of my friends are in their 30s

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. You get my point though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point is that you go dutch with your lady friends? Or that you're drinking when she isn't?

It just seems weird to me that people's bills come out drastically different, to the point where it makes the hassle of a correct split worthwhile. How does this happen? I don't like being the only person drinking/not drinking.

Like Matt said, splitting evenly doesn't mean you don't take care of the chick who didn't drink because she's expecting, or the vegan who only ordered the side of rice.

But if I'm going out with people who drink way less, or order way less, or don't get appetizers or dessert when that's what everyone else is doing, they're probably nits and I probably won't be going out with them a whole lot.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone keeps mentioning college.. i have no idea how that matters somehow.

[/ QUOTE ]

College kids are poor. College kids will argue about who needs to throw in the extra two dollars.

When you're older, you have money. If I go out to dinner with my rents and my neighbors, the fathers will argue about who gets to pay for everyone.

As such, older/wealthier people are more willing to chop it up evenly, because an extra few bucks doesn't matter.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
It just seems weird to me that people's bills come out drastically different, to the point where it makes the hassle of a correct split worthwhile. How does this happen?


[/ QUOTE ]

when going out to eat with friends i almost never drink alcohol, i don't even drink soda.. just get water. my friends, one in particular always gets like 3 or 4 huge beers.

it's not that i would INSIST that we each pay what we owe, it's that my friends just automatically do this. if we order on average the same kind of meal but my friend has $15 more than me in drinks EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO OUT then i highly doubt he would be comfortable with me splitting his beer tab every time.

[swede123]

To me this is the sign of true friendship when you're able to work splitting the check without elaborate procedures. Anytime I'm out with some of my real good friends someone will reach for the check and pay for it, usually because he doesn't have cash on him. Next time it's someone else. If everyone has cash they pretty much do like what Daryn described, people throw in a reasonable amount for themselves, and the final result is the waitress gets 20-30% for a tip.

It gets tricky when going out with people from work or whatever that are more casual friends. For example, this one guy at my office will actually figure out what 12% of the total check is, and if unchecked he'll actually pocket other people's over-tip so the total ends up around 12%. Obviously he doesn't get invited to many happy hours...

Swede

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
everyone keeps mentioning college.. i have no idea how that matters somehow.

[/ QUOTE ]

College kids are poor. College kids will argue about who needs to throw in the extra two dollars.

When you're older, you have money. If I go out to dinner with my rents and my neighbors, the fathers will argue about who gets to pay for everyone.

As such, older/wealthier people are more willing to chop it up evenly, because an extra few bucks doesn't matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's the thing i think everyone is missing, .. maybe it's just in my scenario, but nobody is complaining about money discrepancies.. the money never comes up short, and nobody is ever "arguing" with anyone else over how much they put in.

[B Dids]

This is odd. When my friends go out- you'd never see one person get multiple drinks and one get nothing. My conclusion is that your friends are insane.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
This is odd. When my friends go out- you'd never see one person get multiple drinks and one get nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

why not? this one friend of mine loves beer.. like.. LOVES beer. he doesn't drink because "everyone else is having a drink", he drinks because he loves beer with his meal.

i don't, and drink what i consider to be the best beverage, water.

[RunDownHouse]

I am 100% confused about why everyone is arguing with Daryn. Its never a problem for my friends and I to figure out what we each owe and then pay that. If its just me and one friend, typically one or the other will pick up the bill.

We don't come up short on group bills and one person doesn't end up paying all the time because we tend not to eat with the type of people that would take advantage of that sort of thing. Why is it hard to understand? Pay what you owe, the tip usually ends up on the large side, everyone's happy.

[PocketJokers72]

My homies and I always go out for nice dinners. If there are more than 2 potential payers, we do a round-robin Roshambo (best of 3) to determine who gets the entire check. This only happens after everyone has ordered, so it may have the same 'moderate meal' effect. If there are only 2 payers, it goes to the coin-flip or some other agreed upon manner of random selection. In the bar-type restaurants, the 'diddle for the middle' dart throw closest to the bullseye has become popular, and adds an element of skill.

We never split the check. Someone always has to pay the entire amount. In large dollar cases, we have been known to have the check be paid by the complete loser and the tip paid by the first loser.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It just seems weird to me that people's bills come out drastically different, to the point where it makes the hassle of a correct split worthwhile. How does this happen?


[/ QUOTE ]

when going out to eat with friends i almost never drink alcohol, i don't even drink soda.. just get water. my friends, one in particular always gets like 3 or 4 huge beers.

it's not that i would INSIST that we each pay what we owe, it's that my friends just automatically do this. if we order on average the same kind of meal but my friend has $15 more than me in drinks EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO OUT then i highly doubt he would be comfortable with me splitting his beer tab every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay that makes sense. Usually the only situations I'm eating out are dinner with friends where everyone drinks (wine by the bottle) or lunch with people from work where nobody drinks and all food is generally within a buck or two.

The exact split only comes up when I have to go to someones birthday or whatever with casual "friends" from the office, and the bill splitting is usually an unmitigated train wreck, resulting in my hatred of it. One time a bunch of people left, and someone got stuck with the bill $100+ short. They had to pry money from people at the office the next day. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Edited to add: I also think Daryn's situation where one guy frequently gets multiple beers and the other guy gets nothing, is a bit out of the ordinary. Also, I'd love to gamble for the check because I eat out with the same people a lot and it would be EV neutral, but polite society seems to be more risk averse than the 2p2 crowd.

[Yeti]

Just put in what you ordered, and round up slightly. Or take it in turns to pay. Or chop it evenly. Who cares? I am fine with either of these.

What I am not fine with is people who order the cheapest thing on the menu, then scrounge up exactly the $6.35 they spent and don't put anything in for the tip. Why bother even coming to the meal? Dicks.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
I am 100% confused about why everyone is arguing with Daryn. Its never a problem for my friends and I to figure out what we each owe and then pay that. If its just me and one friend, typically one or the other will pick up the bill.

We don't come up short on group bills and one person doesn't end up paying all the time because we tend not to eat with the type of people that would take advantage of that sort of thing. Why is it hard to understand? Pay what you owe, the tip usually ends up on the large side, everyone's happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's less about arguing with Daryn, and more about doing what is common etiquette. If you have a group of friends where "paying what you owe" is fine and works---go crazy. But in most situations, especially in large groups, it is much easier, quicker, practical and tasteful to split the bill evenly.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
This is odd. When my friends go out- you'd never see one person get multiple drinks and one get nothing. My conclusion is that your friends are insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

my friends and associates must be insane too.

[B Dids]

Seems likely.

Maybe my friends are weird, but either none of us is drinking or all of us are drinking.

Maybe it's just that all of us are always drinking.

I talked this over with my best friend, and we agree that once drinks enter the equation, splitting is out, simply because of issues of how much each person will drink and the fact that some people are ordering top shelf and others aren't.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what happens when one person orders a water and a salad, and another person orders two beers and a steak?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe this thread.

In the vast majority of post-college group dining situations I've been in, the check is split evenly.

If someone has really expensive stuff or a lot more drinks than anyone else, they toss in a little more.

If someone just had a salad while everyone else had three big courses, they toss in less.

It is very simple to have the default be split the bill and just modify accordingly as is reasonable.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Add a tip, split the bill, that's it. If I had a few more drinks than anyone else, I'll throw in a little extra. Just keep it simple.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am 100% confused about why everyone is arguing with Daryn. Its never a problem for my friends and I to figure out what we each owe and then pay that. If its just me and one friend, typically one or the other will pick up the bill.

We don't come up short on group bills and one person doesn't end up paying all the time because we tend not to eat with the type of people that would take advantage of that sort of thing. Why is it hard to understand? Pay what you owe, the tip usually ends up on the large side, everyone's happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's less about arguing with Daryn, and more about doing what is common etiquette. If you have a group of friends where "paying what you owe" is fine and works---go crazy. But in most situations, especially in large groups, it is much easier, quicker, practical and tasteful to split the bill evenly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 100% w/ IndieMatty here.

[JordanIB]

[ QUOTE ]
I am 100% confused about why everyone is arguing with Daryn. Its never a problem for my friends and I to figure out what we each owe and then pay that. If its just me and one friend, typically one or the other will pick up the bill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously.

And the people arguing "Geez...what do you do?? Say 'I owe 24.25, you owe 26.50, and you owe 24.75'?" are absolute idiots.

Obviously in that case you split.

But in most dining situations you won't have even splits. Check comes, pass it around, each figures out their own, voila.

And this "post-college" demarcation is also pretty retarded, as if financial concerns fly away to happy land once someone has their diploma. If I'm making 3x the salary of one of my friends, I'm not making him f'in pay for my steak and wine.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously.

And the people arguing "Geez...what do you do?? Say 'I owe 24.25, you owe 26.50, and you owe 24.75'?" are absolute idiots.

Obviously in that case you split.

[/ QUOTE ]

precisely

[durron597]

What I almost always do is default split the bill, but we pay attention if one person paid unusually more or less and factor that in. So if we all go out to a diner, one guy gets a steak and a beer, another guy just a soda, and three other people get more moderately priced food (like burgers, sandwiches whatever), we divide by 5, all the burgers pay that, the soda guy pays 2 bucks or whatever and the steak guy pays the rest.

[Ulysses]

The term "post-college" as used in this thread really means "group of people all w/ professional jobs of some sort."

I have post-college friends who have no money. The standard rules do not apply to them.

[ QUOTE ]
But in most dining situations you won't have even splits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. In most dining situations I've been in, bills will be within a few bucks, with exceptions being made for non-drinkers or vegetarians. People who don't drink or always order the absolute cheapest thing tend not to be fun, and I tend not to go out with them.

I think that one person drinking significantly more than anyone else is awkward socially (in general). Most entrees are reasonably close in price, and the differences will even out over time.

It's not worth the extra dollar or two for the tacky ritual of everyone looking at the bill, or the time wasted putting different amounts on different cards or shuffling cash back and forth.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
The term "post-college" as used in this thread really means "group of people all w/ professional jobs of some sort."

I have post-college friends who have no money. The standard rules do not apply to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

In college, most are tight with money. Jobs definitely change that, but so does attitude.

I have plenty of blue collar buddies from the old neighborhood that would never think of chiseling on a tab. And I know college buddies that are calculating to the last one what they owe for a bill.

With tight people like that, El D, you just can't use the (wonderful) practice you mention earlier of dividing up and tossing in extra where appropriate.

[Ulysses]

Another post I agree with. I generally go one of four ways:

1) Default - split the bill. Make modifications as reasonable (one guy didn't drink, for example).

2) Someone picks up the bill - done w/ some good friends who I see regularly, pretty much only in 2-person dining situations. If there were a group of 4 who I went out with on a regular basis, this would also seem like a reasonable option.

3) Everyone tosses in what they think they owe - this is done in situations where the group is a little larger, people arrived at different times, some people had dinner while some had just drinks or apps, etc.

4) Everyone takes a look at the bill and tries to calculate exactly what they owe. This is sort of the last resort. It is usually done when there are a lot of people in the group who don't know each other or a number of people in the group who don't have much money.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
the time wasted putting different amounts on different cards or shuffling cash back and forth.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://anthro.palomar.edu/primate/images/chimp_scratching_head.jpg

[B Dids]

Another one we have in large groups, where money is more of an issue.

One person takes the bill and just tells everybody what they owe (tax and tip included). This only works because this person has the implict trust of everybody, and is good at math. It also helps when you're paying with like 5 credit cards, and you have one person who can communicate that to the server.

This is also nice, because in a huge party it can control for that one person who has no concept of sales tax or tipping (or the [censored] who doesn't realize that the b-day girl shouldn't have to pay for her own drinks), and can leave you crippled if they don't pitch in the right amount.

[ QUOTE ]
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the time wasted putting different amounts on different cards or shuffling cash back and forth.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://anthro.palomar.edu/primate/images/chimp_scratching_head.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. All wait-staff have no problem remembering 4+ different amounts for 4+ different credit cards. They certainly have never had to have it explained multiple times, and they have never gotten it wrong. Maybe one day I'll visit your parallel universe where splitting the bill exactly is a painless, time-free, and near instaneous process, just like chopping it up.

Do the exact splitters ever go to dim sum, sushi, korean bbq, family-style italian, shabu-shabu, or fondue? Does everyone do a weigh-in before and after?

[JordanIB]

As an addendum to all of this, while my groups always figure out what each individual owes, we never put down more than one card.

Have someone throw down a card and everyone pays that person cash. Otherwise, it's just plain rude. The only concern here might be people wanting their points, miles, cash back, etc. on their card. In that case, just rotate the 1 card each time out.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
As an addendum to all of this, while my groups always figure out what each individual owes, we never put down more than one card.

Have someone throw down a card and everyone pays that person cash. Otherwise, it's just plain rude. The only concern here might be people wanting their points, miles, cash back, etc. on their card. In that case, just rotate the 1 card each time out.

[/ QUOTE ]

i want to echo all of this as well

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
As an addendum to all of this, while my groups always figure out what each individual owes, we never put down more than one card.

Have someone throw down a card and everyone pays that person cash. Otherwise, it's just plain rude. The only concern here might be people wanting their points, miles, cash back, etc. on their card. In that case, just rotate the 1 card each time out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an excellent way of doing things.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
As an addendum to all of this, while my groups always figure out what each individual owes, we never put down more than one card.

Have someone throw down a card and everyone pays that person cash. Otherwise, it's just plain rude. The only concern here might be people wanting their points, miles, cash back, etc. on their card. In that case, just rotate the 1 card each time out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had one friend who always organized all-you-can-eat sushi night (usually ended up with 6+ people $30/per person) and intentionally never brought no more cash than cab fare so he could put the whole bill on his Amtrak rewards card. It upset me but I like sushi so I went anyway.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
One person takes the bill and just tells everybody what they owe (tax and tip included). This only works because this person has the implict trust of everybody, and is good at math.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how we do it. I'm usually that guy because I don't need my cell phone to calculate a fregin tip.

I hate the 'figure out what you owe' method, simply because it does nothing but generate conflict and acrimony. The people who insist on this method are nearly always the ones who'll claim they didn't eat any of the appetizers or that they only had a single drink and that the service was slow so they're not tipping. Everytime I eat out with these type of people I end up covering for them. Both me and my fiance paid our way through college working jobs where the bulk of our income was from tips, and there's no way I'm shorting a server who does their job just because my companions are asses.

I favour the credit card game, but it's not always realistic, since I'll often be eating out with people for whom a $300 bill is a huge hit to their bank account. I also like the 'I got this one' method, but again, a lot of my friends are cheapskates who never step up, so this one is limited too. This tends to be my default with close friends who I either know will step up in the future or who I don't really care if they ever pay me back or not.

With larger groups containing many people who don't know everyone, I think split evenly is the best way to go. If someone consistently abuses the system just ask them to kick in more. Otherwise who cares? Is $4 a big deal? If you only have $7 to your name what are you doing eating out anyways?

[PocketJokers72]

[ QUOTE ]
Does everyone do a weigh-in before and after?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have stumbled onto a brilliant idea!

I think this is absolutely the best manner to charge for dinner. Weigh in's before sitting down, before and after bathroom breaks, and then after dinner is complete.

Pay by weight, just like semi-trucks on the highway.


Shabu-shabu is also a brilliant concept. 2 hours all you can eat/drink. Want more? OK, here comes another 2 hours.

[tonypaladino]

I understand the reasoning behind the "after college argument" but it is too much of a generalization. It is a maturity issue and I know many mature 20 year old college students as well as many immature and nitpicky 30-40 year olds.

All throughout college I went to lunch twice a week with the same 3 people at a pub. 3 of us would just want to split the bill, but the fourth would be an [censored] and say something like "oh I had only 2 beers" or some [censored] and try to pay what the bill says for his items without thinking about tax or tip. Eventually he wasn't invited any more.