Step 4: Trips, out of position, no kicker

[SuitedSixes]

Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 5: ($885 )
Seat 10: ($1480 )
BB: Sixes ($1390 )
Button: Other Guy ($1605 )
Seat 1: ($1000)
Seat 4: ($2205)
Seat 2: ($1435)
Trny:17449858 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
There is no Small Blind in this hand as the Big Blind of the previous hand left the table.
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sixes Ac 3c
Other Guy raises [200].
Sixes calls [100].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, Ah, 6d ]
Sixes checks.
Other Guy bets [300]
Sixes calls
**Dealing Rurn ** [Ad]
Sixes???

[microbet]

I woulda bet the flop, but might check-raise the turn.

edit: forget that, I don't want him checking behind. I'd bet 1/2 pot or so.

edit: eh crap, he'll bet. check-raise.

[bigt439]

I don't understand why you wouldn't try to c/r all-in, then lead river for whatever amount maximizes your value if you whiff (obviously this depends on villain). I think we're too shallow to get away, but I don't think that's your plan anyways.

What were your thoughts for the hand pf and on the flop, and what were you planning to do on a blank turn?

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]

What were your thoughts for the hand pf and on the flop, and what were you planning to do on a blank turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

The key to this hand is that it is a Step 4, where 5th place is OK (re-ride in Step 4), 1-4th are the same (Movin' on up) and anything else sucks, so there is a fair amount of tightness still at this point.

My plan was to defend my blind and move him off his hand or hit a homerun if the cards fell right. I did not want to see an ace, I wanted to see clubs or low cards. When the first ace hit, I felt behind. When the second hit I felt confused. I, too often, cite the rule of exclusion in these situations and get outkicked.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What were your thoughts for the hand pf and on the flop, and what were you planning to do on a blank turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

The key to this hand is that it is a Step 4, where 5th place is OK (re-ride in Step 4), 1-4th are the same (Movin' on up) and anything else sucks, so there is a fair amount of tightness still at this point.

My plan was to defend my blind and move him off his hand or hit a homerun if the cards fell right. I did not want to see an ace, I wanted to see clubs or low cards. When the first ace hit, I felt behind. When the second hit I felt confused. I, too often, cite the rule of exclusion in these situations and get outkicked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, okay, some important stuff in there. Well if you were confused on the flop I don't see why you don't lead for 2/3 and make the hand much easier to play. This is not just in the case of taking the easiest line, but I believe in this spot the line with least confusion also has the highest EV. When you check call and make trips there is too much in the pot relative to your holding to try and get away IMO. So then I would do what I said in my first post and try and get the money in. I know sometimes you get duped by a better A and then that third A was the worst card you could've seen, but you've bloated the pot too much to fold now given that his range could be huge. He could've made that flop bet with the exact same range he raised you with, and that second A is only going to further his belief that you don't have one.

I think folding pf is fine, but calling is too. Since you did that I lead this particular flop and don't put much more in. Since you didn't do that, I get it all-in however I can on this particular turn.

[bones]

I definitely don't like leading at any point in this hand. What does donk-betting the turn accomplish? The turn didn't make anybody's hand better or worse (unless he had 64, which is obviously unlikely). If he plays, he's going to make it difficult on you by flat calling or raising. Either one is going to make you sick. Or he could fold, in which case you've lost a significant amount of value on your hand if he had nothing but would continue to bet (no draws on the board, so if he's behind, he's either dead or needing a 2 outter). So by leading out you either lose the maximum or possibly fold the best hand, and win the minimum if you're ahead.

I play it from behind the whole way.

[SuitedSixes]

I like your line, almost as much as I like your avatar.

[freemoney]

u called pre n on flop this hand plays itself after that

[skipperbob]

I wouldn't have called the PF raise for fear that the flop woulda come what the flop came...A-rag out-of-position is a [censored] hand....You got lucky not to go broke...Anybody that would back you is a moeran /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

You gotta keep calling with this hand. You want to let weaker hands give you more chips, which is much more unlikely if you show interest in this hand with an ace on the board. You also minimize your losses if you're up against a stronger ace.

I don't mind folding preflop if Other Guy hasn't been putting in any position raises. Then it's just too likely (to me at least) that you're up against a stronger aces rather than up against a pocket pair (which won't always pay you off when your ace hits). If Other Guy minraises somewhat or quite a bit then calling and playing the flop isn't a bad idea.

Yugoslav

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
You gotta keep calling with this hand. You want to let weaker hands give you more chips, which is much more unlikely if you show interest in this hand with an ace on the board. You also minimize your losses if you're up against a stronger ace.

I don't mind folding preflop if Other Guy hasn't been putting in any position raises. Then it's just too likely (to me at least) that you're up against a stronger aces rather than up against a pocket pair (which won't always pay you off when your ace hits). If Other Guy minraises somewhat or quite a bit then calling and playing the flop isn't a bad idea.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all of this if you decide to play the hand to maximize value against weaker hands, but why not lead the flop so that you can find out whether you are against a stronger hand. Let's be clear, this is not a good flop for our hand, let's try and take down the pot on the flop so we at least know where we are. While calling down wins us the most against pp's and the like, we often get stacked by better aces. I see no reason for that to happen here (not until the third A comes anyways).

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not lead the flop so that you can find out whether you are against a stronger hand. Let's be clear, this is not a good flop for our hand, let's try and take down the pot on the flop so we at least know where we are. While calling down wins us the most against pp's and the like, we often get stacked by better aces. I see no reason for that to happen here (not until the third A comes anyways).

[/ QUOTE ]

I was really more interested in NOT leading out to see where I stood. If I bet out and was called, I still wouldn't have much of an idea, it would just open up the possibility of being raised. I was willing to give my opponent a free card to see where he felt he stood.

The size of his bet made me feel behind, but not so behind that I felt like it was a mistake to see another card. I entered the hand feeling he had a mediocre A or K. I felt like I would still be able to get away on the turn with minimal damge, if necessary, and I may have a better feel of the hand to go with Plan A which was to move him off on the turn or river.

[fnord_too]

I typically check call here, make a small bet on the river if it is checked through (or just check, depending on other guy).

I am much happier if the one of the babies on the board is a T+ instead of a baby. Even then this is a take it easy hand for me, and I will be basing my play of tough spots on my read of other guy. (Against a rock, for instance, I am folding this pre flop with no hesitation. Against an aggressive stealer who can lay down pre flop, I may push pre flop. Post flop here can be unpleasant, but against a boring player I like the pf call.)

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody that would back you is a moeran /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Another successful mission for Captain Obvious

http://img200.exs.cx/img200/8940/obvious3bq.gif