respondents to questions

is there some way to determine what the skill level and profitability is of folks answering these posts? obviously, a response from a player making a substantial living at the game is going to bear greater weight than say, mine.

[MrWookie47]

This is exceedingly poor thinking. If an answer is right, it's right for its own merit, not because a veteran pro said it. Veterans make mistakes all the time. Weigh each answer critically rather than mindless trusting those of the "pros."

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
This is exceedingly poor thinking. If an answer is right, it's right for its own merit, not because a veteran pro said it. Veterans make mistakes all the time. Weigh each answer critically rather than mindless trusting those of the "pros."

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. While it's encouraging when an "experienced" poster gives advice, it's best to look at each post on it's own merits. If you read and spend enough time here, you'll learn whose posts have more content than others.

For instance, those who've been here for a while know to ignore everything I write. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
For instance, those who've been here for a while know to ignore everything I write.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is absurd.

to mister wookie:

excuse me, it is anything BUT poor reasoning. if i am in ignorance, my ignorance includes an ignorance to what is "right". it is precisely because i am ignorant of what is "right", that i ask, who can i identify as capable of replying in a "right" fashion. i can cite multiple instances of hand evaluations that seem "correct" to me, but are also obviously antinomies. who of the authors of these conflicting interpretations is "right"?

and please donot reply with that commoness, it's all relative, or, they both are.

your comment was exceedingly poor reasoning, and exceedingly arrogant as well.

[irishpint]

[ QUOTE ]
is there some way to determine what the skill level and profitability is of folks answering these posts? obviously, a response from a player making a substantial living at the game is going to bear greater weight than say, mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

very rarely is there one correct answer, which is what makes poker so interesting. it's not about who is right or wrong, it's about stating possible ways to play a hand, discussing them, and determining which you think is best and why. the key is the why. before you get caught up in just following one posters advice i'd read all the responses (after posting yours) and see if you can figure out why that might be a good/bad/better/worse play than what you/others suggested. learndeding is fun!

[Redd]

It's great to say that every post has merit (because it does), but there are posters here who's opinions I tend to respect more because of their past performance. It was helpful for me as a newer player to get an understanding of which regulars actually knew what they were talking about because unfortunately a bad hand analysis with a few buzzwords can sound very much like a good one. Especially to a newer poster.

In short, everyone definitely has value to add, but it's good to know who are the regulars are to at least be able to read their contributions. I just got a feel for it by reading the forum. To get you started, everyone who's replied to the OP so far here falls on my list.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
to mister wookie:

excuse me, it is anything BUT poor reasoning. if i am in ignorance, my ignorance includes an ignorance to what is "right". it is precisely because i am ignorant of what is "right", that i ask, who can i identify as capable of replying in a "right" fashion. i can cite multiple instances of hand evaluations that seem "correct" to me, but are also obviously antinomies. who of the authors of these conflicting interpretations is "right"?

and please donot reply with that commoness, it's all relative, or, they both are.

your comment was exceedingly poor reasoning, and exceedingly arrogant as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wowie, sensitive huh?

Wook's answer was correct. It doesn't matter who gives the correct answer, as long as it is the correct answer, get it?

And I'm always a lagtard, so don't play like me. Numeri's right alot, and that pisses me off.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
your comment was exceedingly poor reasoning, and exceedingly arrogant as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Try to reply to the poster you'd like to reference. I almost wrote a scathing reply before I realized you weren't talking to me! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I think what the wookie is trying to say is that there really is no way to determine who is a better player. When I first started, I looked at the number of posts and kind of instinctively trusted those with more posts. Now, after I've been here for a while, I see new people posting really bad advice with like 1,000,000 posts! (OK, so I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.)

Everyone here (well, almost everyone) has something to offer. It's just a discussion forum. No one here is a master. If so, we wouldn't be playing in micro-limits. Even the experienced players who play 5/10 or 10/20 and drop in from time to time aren't perfect players.

Try not to get offended too easily on these boards. I wish I could give you a better answer and say "Hey, trust x, y, and z." But I can't.

Start participating, and you'll form your own opinions soon enough.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
And I'm always a lagtard, so don't play like me. Numeri's right alot, and that pisses me off.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I guess if I could give one piece of advice, it'd be this: Ignore Nate's posts like the plague. Save yourself!

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
It's great to say that every post has merit (because it does), but there are posters here who's opinions I tend to respect more because of their past performance

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly my game wouldn't be anywhere near where it is now if it wasn't for guys like

Shillx
Entity
btspider
Jaran
deathdonkey
Grunchcan
and a ton others

i have a better idea:

dont answer the question if you believe it a ridiculous question.

i guess i am a little tired of a-hole poker players, thank you very much. you can call that sensitivity if you wish.

now, to the other possible respondents to this question, any idea how to seperate the wheat from the chaff, if you know neither what wheat is, nor what chaff is? thanks.

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
to mister wookie:

excuse me, it is anything BUT poor reasoning. if i am in ignorance, my ignorance includes an ignorance to what is "right". it is precisely because i am ignorant of what is "right", that i ask, who can i identify as capable of replying in a "right" fashion. i can cite multiple instances of hand evaluations that seem "correct" to me, but are also obviously antinomies. who of the authors of these conflicting interpretations is "right"?

and please donot reply with that commoness, it's all relative, or, they both are.

your comment was exceedingly poor reasoning, and exceedingly arrogant as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

One good thing to have in this forum, as well as all the forums on 2+2 is thick skin. Before you're so ctitical of others, try responding to some hands and see how your advice stacks up.

If you're not here to get better and learn more about LHE.....go away!

[Aaron_]

[ QUOTE ]
to mister wookie:

excuse me, it is anything BUT poor reasoning. if i am in ignorance, my ignorance includes an ignorance to what is "right". it is precisely because i am ignorant of what is "right", that i ask, who can i identify as capable of replying in a "right" fashion. i can cite multiple instances of hand evaluations that seem "correct" to me, but are also obviously antinomies. who of the authors of these conflicting interpretations is "right"?

and please donot reply with that commoness, it's all relative, or, they both are.

your comment was exceedingly poor reasoning, and exceedingly arrogant as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to take offence - Wookie's a good guy.

What your post hinted at is something that ought to be discouraged in poker: rule bound play. A poor poker player is not ignorant to what is right or wrong, but why it's right or wrong. Unfortunately, many people treat these boards as a Q&A forum, and not a discussion forum. But you'll never learn this game one hand at a time.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And I'm always a lagtard, so don't play like me. Numeri's right alot, and that pisses me off.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I guess if I could give one piece of advice, it'd be this: Ignore Nate's posts like the plague. Save yourself!

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Oh, and b-set is right quite a bit too, and that pisses me off as well.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and b-set is right quite a bit too, and that pisses me off as well

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[shant]

Whoever has the most posts is the best at poker.

[pistol78]

Do you get your oil change done by the dealer for $160.00?

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and b-set is right quite a bit too, and that pisses me off as well

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually when I sit in one of your 2+2 games, and I bluff 3 bet your turn c/r, and you cap it cause you are right, that I'm full of [censored]. Yeah, that pisses me off. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW I might need a sweat later this week, you gonna be around? My game really sucks right now.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's great to say that every post has merit (because it does), but there are posters here who's opinions I tend to respect more because of their past performance

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly my game wouldn't be anywhere near where it is now if it wasn't for guys like

Shillx
Entity
btspider
Jaran
deathdonkey
Grunchcan
and a ton others

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, these are so old school. This who taught us to play.

Seriosuly though. Just read the posts and evaluate the logic. If you're not sure, post your thoughts/questions. If something is blatantly wrong, somebody knowlegeable will correct it. I won't single out the current good posters. You'll figure out who they are soon enough, and everybody has merit

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Whoever has the most posts is the best at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep I always trust Jakethebake's advice

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and b-set is right quite a bit too, and that pisses me off as well

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the Dog is just in a pissy mood tonight.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whoever has the most posts is the best at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep I always trust Jakethebake's advice

[/ QUOTE ]
nh

[jaxUp]

is your name pronounced "shawnt" or does it rhyme with rant?

dear idiots thus far not answering my question:

if i gots me twenty folks, 6 of whom make money painting cars, and 14 of whom have no idea of paint: says i ask them there who knows not paint what paint is, and how it is applied to an auto, and they make a perfectly feasible reply, with your fingers.

then i ask of them that maketh some sum of living wage, verily brother, wherefore paintest thou? and yea, they spake truly, and show me an atomizer, and it's proper use.

now, being in ignorance of paint, atomizers, and its application, i may decide that the eloquence of finger painter idiot is more appealing than the jargon of himwhopaintethforbreadeth. it followeth, therefore, some indication of the knowledge of him who speaketh is required to formeth my owneth opinioneth. amen.

therefore, in the interests of learning who are winning players, so that their perceptions can be weighed and balanced, and taken with respect, yea, unto my bosom, i did ask my woebegone question.

when and if it becomes an issue for me, that i cannot tell the rule from the instance, or cannot distinguish my right hand from my left, or any other like quotidian philosophical issue, i will post a question begging the knowledge thereof.

so again, let me iterate: is there a way to determine who is making the bread?; for i swear, i wish to paint my car, and live with the consequences, yea, mightily.

[shant]

Rhymes with flaunt and croissant.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
dear idiots thus far not answering my question

[/ QUOTE ]

you're welcome

hey wookie, can you rename this to Bottomset's Un-Official NC Thread??

k thanks

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dear idiots thus far not answering my question

[/ QUOTE ]

your welcome

hey wookie, can you rename this to Bottomset's Un-Official NC Thread??

k thanks

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds good to me.

[detruncate]

Sorry for not living up to your expectations. You are clearly a valuable addition to the forum. We'll try to do better for you in the future.

[Aaron_]

[ QUOTE ]
dear idiots thus far not answering my question:

if i gots me twenty folks, 6 of whom make money painting cars, and 14 of whom have no idea of paint: says i ask them there who knows not paint what paint is, and how it is applied to an auto, and they make a perfectly feasible reply, with your fingers.

then i ask of them that maketh some sum of living wage, verily brother, wherefore paintest thou? and yea, they spake truly, and show me an atomizer, and it's proper use.

now, being in ignorance of paint, atomizers, and its application, i may decide that the eloquence of finger painter idiot is more appealing than the jargon of himwhopaintethforbreadeth. it followeth, therefore, some indication of the knowledge of him who speaketh is required to formeth my owneth opinioneth. amen.

therefore, in the interests of learning who are winning players, so that their perceptions can be weighed and balanced, and taken with respect, yea, unto my bosom, i did ask my woebegone question.

when and if it becomes an issue for me, that i cannot tell the rule from the instance, or cannot distinguish my right hand from my left, or any other like quotidian philosophical issue, i will post a question begging the knowledge thereof.

so again, let me iterate: is there a way to determine who is making the bread?; for i swear, i wish to paint my car, and live with the consequences, yea, mightily.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already said this, but I'll do it again. The conclusions arrived at by WHOMEVER posts replies to hand histories are RATIONALIZED, and not LEARNED. If you don't know how to RATIONALIZE a decision, then ASK A QUESTION, or BUY A [censored] BOOK (http://www.twoplustwo.com/books.html).

[numeri]

So I almost have the ellusive 100%er at my table right now. Current VP$IP is 95.7%, but it's only through 30 hands. Needless to say, I feel priveledged that he's directly to my right, and I've been isolating frequently.

Hmmm... maybe that was too much content. Ehh...

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
dear idiots thus far not answering my question:

if i gots me twenty folks, 6 of whom make money painting cars, and 14 of whom have no idea of paint: says i ask them there who knows not paint what paint is, and how it is applied to an auto, and they make a perfectly feasible reply, with your fingers.

then i ask of them that maketh some sum of living wage, verily brother, wherefore paintest thou? and yea, they spake truly, and show me an atomizer, and it's proper use.

now, being in ignorance of paint, atomizers, and its application, i may decide that the eloquence of finger painter idiot is more appealing than the jargon of himwhopaintethforbreadeth. it followeth, therefore, some indication of the knowledge of him who speaketh is required to formeth my owneth opinioneth. amen.

therefore, in the interests of learning who are winning players, so that their perceptions can be weighed and balanced, and taken with respect, yea, unto my bosom, i did ask my woebegone question.

when and if it becomes an issue for me, that i cannot tell the rule from the instance, or cannot distinguish my right hand from my left, or any other like quotidian philosophical issue, i will post a question begging the knowledge thereof.

so again, let me iterate: is there a way to determine who is making the bread?; for i swear, i wish to paint my car, and live with the consequences, yea, mightily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jehova!

Mine's 9 inches.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
Mine's 9 inches.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have a 9-in monitor? I thought you bought one of those 2001fp ones from Dell. WTF? Or am I missing something?

[jaxUp]

I'm always right...just listen to me.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mine's 9 inches.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have a 9-in monitor? I thought you bought one of those 2001fp ones from Dell. WTF? Or am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is light in the loafers.

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
Jehova!

Mine's 9 inches.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ignore everything Nate says, except for this. I haven't laughed at something this hard in a NC thread for quite a while. VNH, sir.

Bottomset, you'll have your (original) personal NC thread unlocked and free for use by Sunday ON THE CONDITION that you send me a PM with the link. I'm too lazy to dig it up.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
So I almost have the ellusive 100%er at my table right now. Current VP$IP is 95.7%, but it's only through 30 hands. Needless to say, I feel priveledged that he's directly to my right, and I've been isolating frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously, this guy is soooo bad.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.fourthnut.com/cgi-bin/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results:
MP doesn't show J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero has A/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.75 BB.

dear Aaron:

i viewed your website. you mispelled "consistantly".

apparently, you do not understand that "rationalization" is a term that describes the method whereby we think, but NOT what it is we think. the christian forefathers could and did, rationalize the number of angels standing upon the head of a pin.

i am not interested in rationalizing an incorrection. i am interested in learning to play poker well. i will learn to play poker well from those who play poker well.

you [censored] [censored], you.

[gharp]

[ QUOTE ]
Shillx

[/ QUOTE ]
Someone sent me a good upgrade for his avatar today:

http://www.keriandgreg.com/gregfiles/FGerber.jpg



Eh?

[Aaron_]

[ QUOTE ]
i am not interested in rationalizing an incorrection. i am interested in learning to play poker well. i will learn to play poker well from those who play poker well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good luck.

[numeri]

Me likes, gharp. That's [censored] sweet. (Just wanted to give the censor more to do in this thread. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
dear Aaron:

i viewed your website. you mispelled "consistantly".

apparently, you do not understand that "rationalization" is a term that describes the method whereby we think, but NOT what it is we think. the christian forefathers could and did, rationalize the number of angels standing upon the head of a pin.

i am not interested in rationalizing an incorrection. i am interested in learning to play poker well. i will learn to play poker well from those who play poker well.

you [censored] [censored], you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You big brother drained the gene pool. Variance is a bitch sometimes. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

oops!

let me, lest i appear impolitic, and lacking in the social graces, thank you all for not answering my question.

[numeri]

You gotta check out this hand. Just sweet! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The real hero is UTG, despite what the converter tries to tell you.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.fourthnut.com/cgi-bin/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results:
UTG has 4c 2c (flush, ace high).
Button doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG wins 9.50 BB.

heh... i think this is actually a really important idea, ive seen some absolutely ridiculous advice given on these boards after long 'reasoning' posts; (yeah a lot were posted by me /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

i wish we could have some way to be ranked somehow... even by putting a code in your "Loc:" so people can distinguish whose advice to believe and whose to take with a grain of salt.

what about people use a kind of self evaluation to rate on a scale of 1 to 10 and open the location part with that.

for example mine could be: "3/Viridian City!"
and 3 could mean.... relatively inexperienced, but at least a consistent and substantial winner at the low limits where i play.


i always remember this one time i was at a b+m table with one of the biggest fish (he even looked like a muppet) id ever sat down with, and the fish started advising the other player. totally serious and well intentioned he suggested things like...

"You should always just call to see the flop, because you can never tell exactly how your hand will change. Even aces arent good on a flop of 456."
*Nods wisely*
*Newer (but probably better) fish nods back and takes it in*

its just the blind leading the blind....

sorry for going against the grain and agreeing with op haha, i understand if my own ranking drops to 1 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NateDog]

wait, does everyone really think I suck?

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]
You know, I like Chipotle, too! Mmmm.... burritos....

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]
You know, I like Chipotle, too! Mmmm.... burritos....

[/ QUOTE ]

Chipotle is Macdonalds Dan. Come out west and get real burritos.

[MrWookie47]

Sure, Chipotle is McDonalds. Sure, there are better burritos. However, Chipotle still gives consistently good quality. I'm always happy and satisfied when I eat there.

[Aaron_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]
You know, I like Chipotle, too! Mmmm.... burritos....

[/ QUOTE ]

That reminds me. I went to a mexican fast food place the other day and I was reading a sign on the window:

"WE ONLY ACCEPT CASH, CREDIT OR DEBIT
ALL DEBIT CHARGES WILL INCLUDE A $0.50 CONVENIENCE FEE
SORRY FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE"

I savored in the delicious carne asada and the irony.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, Chipotle is McDonalds. Sure, there are better burritos. However, Chipotle still gives consistently good quality. I'm always happy and satisfied when I eat there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Del Taco.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]
You know, I like Chipotle, too! Mmmm.... burritos....

[/ QUOTE ]

Chipotle is Macdonalds Dan. Come out west and get real burritos.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I know. I rationalize it by saying that I really never understood how that works - are they owned 100% by McDonald's? Is it just a minority ownership? What is it?

But seriously, don't tell me. I like to live in ignorance.

And being serious really, we have plenty of good Mexican food here outside of Chicago. Quite a bustling immigrant community we have here.

yall make me /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[jaxUp]

the problem with this is that nobody's advice is right or wrong all the time. The great part about not having ratings is tat lots of good debate is started. If somebody already starts off more "right" than somebody else because of a higher rating, the debate will deteriorate and people will lose out on a lot of learning.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
the problem with this is that nobody's advice is right or wrong all the time. The great part about not having ratings is tat lots of good debate is started. If somebody already starts off more "right" than somebody else because of a higher rating, the debate will deteriorate and people will lose out on a lot of learning.

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. I started to type this out, but got distracted by Chipotle. Is it wrong to be hungry for a burrito at 12:30am?

Anyway, even the good experienced posters have faulty logic sometimes. And by sheer dumb luck, I get things right sometimes. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

im not denying that and i think thats one of the best parts of the forum. i think the single time i learned the most on this forum was on a wookie post where basically everyone had argued for a call with about 20 respondents and i believed that it should have been a raise (dunno if anyone else remembers, it was a river with AA haha).... so i basically kept reasoning it out and arguing my case, and eventually quite a few people saw it my way. (note: im not saying i was right or wrong, i think its hard to have definitive answers in poker, but the point was that i had learnt a lot in having to defend what i thought and why i believed a raise was necessary)

but the problem doesnt come in those posts. it comes in the posts where the debate doesnt happen, it ends up with 6 posts, and 3 of those posters where either wrong or more likely just not paying attention and the op walks away with 'blind leading the blind' type info and then spreads that on to other posters down the line....

if there was a way in posts like this where one poster says one thing and a few others say another and its short, it would be useful to know which of the posters had the experience and knowledge to back it up.

i thought of another possible way.... why not have green = mods, blue = regular like now.... but then add a third level of red which wouldnt be given any powers, but could generally be relied on to give better info. i think this would help newbies a lot.

[ QUOTE ]
i viewed your website. you mispelled "consistantly".

[/ QUOTE ]

btw, it can be spelled with an e or an a, either is correct.

[MrWookie47]

Red is actually reserved for Admins. There was some talk in MTT and the mod forum to give good posters a special color, but it was decided that there shall be no colors. It's mostly that people don't want an aristocracy, nor do they want the eyesore of lots of colors floating around.

Also, if you can dig it up, I'd like to read (or reread) the post you're talking about. It doesn't ring a bell, and you say it was one of mine, so I hope I didn't miss anything good.

To the OP: Just believe whoever has the highest post count.

[numeri]

I understand what you're saying eskimo, but I just don't see it as practical. For one, who decides, and how do they decide?

I, for one, don't want the burden of being a "respected" poster. I make tons of bad advice here. I get a hit now and then just like everyone else, but no one always has good advice. And there are many new posters who offer some real insight.

Again, I understand where you're coming from, but this is a discussion board, not a place to come and get instant answers. (I know that's not your point, but I think there are some who do come for that.)

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
im not denying that and i think thats one of the best parts of the forum. i think the single time i learned the most on this forum was on a wookie post where basically everyone had argued for a call with about 20 respondents and i believed that it should have been a raise (dunno if anyone else remembers, it was a river with AA haha).... so i basically kept reasoning it out and arguing my case, and eventually quite a few people saw it my way. (note: im not saying i was right or wrong, i think its hard to have definitive answers in poker, but the point was that i had learnt a lot in having to defend what i thought and why i believed a raise was necessary)

but the problem doesnt come in those posts. it comes in the posts where the debate doesnt happen, it ends up with 6 posts, and 3 of those posters where either wrong or more likely just not paying attention and the op walks away with 'blind leading the blind' type info and then spreads that on to other posters down the line....

if there was a way in posts like this where one poster says one thing and a few others say another and its short, it would be useful to know which of the posters had the experience and knowledge to back it up.

i thought of another possible way.... why not have green = mods, blue = regular like now.... but then add a third level of red which wouldnt be given any powers, but could generally be relied on to give better info. i think this would help newbies a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see the merit of your idea, but it is just too much of a deterrent to new posters and will hinder development. The best solution is for regular posters to just clamp down on stupid advice and try to open up more debate. If you are noticing so much wrong advice, then you should be making a fuss about it.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]

To the OP: Just believe whoever has the highest post count.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I happen to be arguing with somebody who has a higher post count than me, in which case you should believe me.

[NateDog]

Ok seriously, am I that bad?

My advice usually comes from a 'what would I do in this situation?'. I'm still learning (as we all are) but I have some experience in the games we discuss here. When I first started here, back in the Entity, Shillx, Droolie, et al days, I gave way too much credit to post count. It wasn't until I started actually responding to posts, getting it really wrong, and having it explained to me why it was wrong that I figured out who was giving sound advice. I learn more when I try to figure it out myself, as I believe most players would. There is no instruction manual for proper post flop play. There are only options, and applying the best option to a specific scenario is the goal. The problem lies in the variables. A significant volume of hands will give you a broader range of scenarios and variables to those scenarios. Over time, an observant and thinking player will be able to recall a similar situation, and apply the 'most correct' option. (I think the xxxx and it's not close or xxxx do you see why? posts are useless). Gleaming that knowledge from an experienced, thinking, and observant player is what we are after. Post count has nothing to do with it. You have to learn where you can.

But really, am I that bad?

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
But really, am I that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you need a hug? /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[detruncate]

I've never seen this as a top down place. There are always a few posters floating around that everyone likes to see, but most of the every day work is done by people of roughly similar levels of experience working through things together and providing perspective for each other.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]

My advice usually comes from a 'what would I do in this situation?'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have moved away from these kinds of posts. Formerly, a post would often look like:

"I would do xxxxx, but I'm not sure if that is correct"

I think when we do this, we don't intend it to be advice. In situations where I am unure like this, I have started actually taking some time and trying to analyze wat's correct. I feel it as improved the average quality of my posts dramatically.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are noticing so much wrong advice, then you should be making a fuss about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

im not qualified to be making a fuss, im usually the one giving the bad advice haha. im not saying there is a lot of wrong advice or that it is a significant problem..... rather suggesting it as a way to further improve that which is good already

[ QUOTE ]
Red is actually reserved for Admins. There was some talk in MTT and the mod forum to give good posters a special color, but it was decided that there shall be no colors. It's mostly that people don't want an aristocracy, nor do they want the eyesore of lots of colors floating around.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, yep red was just an arbitrary idea, any colour would do. if its already been brought up then i guess the arguments have already been made and were disagreed with. fair enough, i guess i would just be on the side that would find it more helpful....

the post was http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&amp;vc=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=3569828&amp;page=0&amp;fpart=all &amp;vc=1) (its actually a scotty34 post, but ur name is in the title which is why i remembered it. if ur interested, i dont agree with it all any more as ive improved since, but the bit i really took from that was my reasoning for why the Q slowdown more likely indicated KK than JJ)

Edit: and if your interested the vil had JK

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
"I would do xxxxx, but I'm not sure if that is correct"

[/ QUOTE ]
I still find myself making these posts. I like your suggestion about spending more time thinking and actually giving a solid opinion - "solid" in that you feel it is the right play, not that is is necessarily good advice.

[MrWookie47]

OK, I remember that thread now. Thanks for bringing it up. It was a good one.

You could do what I do.... Hang around here, read a lot of posts, stick your head in some books, play some poker, review your sessions, think about the way you played, come back here, use the search function to find lots of threads about the topic you're thinking about, realise you suck and repeat the cycle trying to improve. Improving your game is hard work. There isn't some Mystical Guru 2+2 Poster who's going to hand you your game on a plate. There's more to be learnt from trying to understand than there is by some kind of rote learning, and hearing different perspectives is a big part of that I think. I don't think grading posters is a good idea, if you hang around and read enough you'll soon figure out whose opinion resonates with you more anyway.

Anyway, just my 2c.
Mmmmm, burritos....

heh... yeah.... memories....

so... where were we? oh yeah tacos....

[MrWookie47]

Besty, you should post more. It sounds like you'll fit in here just fine /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[macdaddy991]

I am going to respond to this so I can get a higher post count.

There, now I have a higher post count.



Am I a better player now?

[numeri]

NH Betsy.

Anybody who likes burritos is good in my book. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I a better player now?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you think I've been posting in this thread so much? I'm trying to boost my post-count so all the n00bs will think I really know what I'm talking about and then I can give them bad advice and keep the fishes to myself.

P.S. It's late and I like run-on sentences.

[macdaddy991]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I a better player now?

[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

You know since I upped that post count, I have felt so much more confident in my game. I think I am going to take a shot at 10/20 6 max. I hear that is a soft game and I am a hot poster tonight.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I am going to take a shot at 10/20 6 max. I hear that is a soft game

[/ QUOTE ]

you have no idea.

[ QUOTE ]
I am going to respond to this so I can get a higher post count.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am too, because it worked so well for macdaddy.

When I first looked at the 2+2 forums, I thought that the Internet Tower of Babel Syndrome would mean little usable content. Instead the opposite has proven to be true. Without these forums (and ML in particular) I'm certain I wouldn't be doing as well as I am. (Critical thinking reeeeally helps.)

How well am I doing? Although it's still early (~60k hands under my belt), I'm a (reasonably) consistent winner, and I'm currently stomping 1/2 and 2/4 6-max flat as a frickin' pancake.

Yet I know that I still suck and no one should listen to me.

[Agthorr]

[ QUOTE ]
so again, let me iterate: is there a way to determine who is making the bread?; for i swear, i wish to paint my car, and live with the consequences, yea, mightily.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of the people not making bread will tell you all of the people with bread don't have enough bread to make an adequate sample size.

[adsman]

I can't believe I missed this whole thread.

Where is the love?

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe I missed this whole thread.

Where is the love?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dear idiots thus far not answering my question

[/ QUOTE ]

your welcome

hey wookie, can you rename this to Bottomset's Un-Official NC Thread??

k thanks

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds good to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts:

I had Taco Bell for lunch today. It was good. I always get the 'mild' sauce. Some people like 'hot', others like 'fire'. I like 'mild'.

I need to do laundry.

That baby t-shirt is awesome.

I honestly feel that I've become less intelligent just by reading this thread.

[Shillx]

Dude Chipotle sucks ass. Come out to the bay area and get some real mexican food. As for the topic at hand, I'll just say one thing...

I was talking to someone who was quoting their winrate over some amount of hands (~30k hands). He was a very good player in terms of winrate (if that is how you want to quantify goodness). In fact he was so good that his winrate was 3.2 bb/100 over that span. He then told me that he never had a 150 bb downswing.

His comment to me was that he never had a 150 bb downswing because he was such a good player. I kinda laughed for a while and then I told him that he was such a good player because he never had a 150 bb downswing.

Brad

Even if I doubt the original poster will bother reading this far, here's my response:

No two poker situations are exactly the same. That's why a popular answer to any poker question is "it depends" because everything depends on so many factors. Therefore, just reading the advice of some pro player doesn't help as much as actively discussing a hand. If a pro answers "Raise here", you actually learn very little, much less than if a few "inferior" players discussed the hand and gave you their views. Because even if they concluded with "call" or something that it wrong, you get the chance to think the hand through from many different perspectives. And even more important, when discussing a hand, you probably have to defend your actions, forcing you to really think it through and probably finding a flaw in your thinking. Just blindly following advice gives you very little in the end!

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]
You know, I like Chipotle, too! Mmmm.... burritos....

[/ QUOTE ]

That reminds me. I went to a mexican fast food place the other day and I was reading a sign on the window:

"WE ONLY ACCEPT CASH, CREDIT OR DEBIT
ALL DEBIT CHARGES WILL INCLUDE A $0.50 CONVENIENCE FEE
SORRY FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE"

I savored in the delicious carne asada and the irony.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO.. nice!

[Obliky]

[ QUOTE ]
I am going to respond to this so I can get a higher post count.

There, now I have a higher post count.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet..im a slightly better player now too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

To OP, do you see why?

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude Chipotle sucks ass. Come out to the bay area and get some real mexican food.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now your talking... Tacos Jalapa in Sunnyvale for lunch today.. err I guess yesterday now!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am going to respond to this so I can get a higher post count.

There, now I have a higher post count.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet..im a slightly better player now too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my post count to almost 350 in less than 6 weeks by ninja bumping the Sup Bro thread a couple of hundred times. With each bump I could feel my "Poker" awareness increase just like the quickening in Highlander

http://img495.imageshack.us/img495/109/q1uw.jpg

Sorry, I've been spending WAY too much time in OOT!

[adsman]

I think that this thread should be stickied and put in the FAQ as an example to new posters of the possible terrible consequences of posting absolute rubbish.

ps, Jax, thanks for the love.

[Obliky]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that this thread should be stickied and put in the FAQ as an example to new posters of the possible terrible consequences of posting absolute rubbish.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. This thread is the quintessential 'Ask a stupid question...get a stupid answer thread'

[car ramrod]

I seriously just read this whole thread.

My comments. Chipotle is goot, there are better places to get burriots.

I need to get my post count up.

To the op: just hang around, you will get lots of good advice, some bad advice, decide for yourself. You sound like you just want an easy solution to poker, there is none. You have to respond, and think about the answers.

good luck.

[Duerig]

I am the best looking poster in micros.

[VoraciousReader]

1)It's not fair to make me laugh this hard so early in the morning. I may have sprained a rib thanks to all of you.

2)Are posts from this thread eligible for the last-ditch NC nominations? I'd like to nominate the inconvenient convenience post.

3)Chipotle is like a really wonderfully done Crab Rangoon (not the awful ones you find on buffets that look like flowers, the little pillow ones that are feather light and bursting with crab and hot out of the oil). It's still not authentic, but it's good enough that I don't really care. I may have some Chipotle today, in fact: vegetarian burrito w/black beans, hot salsa, cheese, guacamole, lettuce.

[benkath1]

What is Chipotle? Some new Mexican fast food joint owned by McDonalds?
I like burritos, but if I was going out west, it would be for an In-n-Out burger, not Del Taco. My wife loves Del Taco, but every time I see one I want to barf.

I wonder......If Mrwookie went to this Chipotle place and ordered a burrito, would it have bacon on it?

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
vegetarian burrito

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a meatatarian bitch. That is just weak.

Also, I have never heard of Chipotle. Does it exist in Canada?

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
His comment to me was that he never had a 150 bb downswing because he was such a good player. I kinda laughed for a while and then I told him that he was such a good player because he never had a 150 bb downswing.

[/ QUOTE ]
POTD

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]

I like burritos, but if I was going out west, it would be for an In-n-Out burger, not Del Taco.

[/ QUOTE ]

There really is an In-n-Out burger? I always just thought it was something off the Big Labowski. There you go.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I have never heard of Chipotle. Does it exist in Canada?

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, you guys miss out on all the good stuff.

chipotle.com (http://www.chipotle.com/)

And I just found this: My burrito has 54g of fat, and 1159 calories (http://www.chipotlefan.com/). So that's why I'm not hungry for 2 days after I have a burrito. Huh.

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I like burritos, but if I was going out west, it would be for an In-n-Out burger, not Del Taco.

[/ QUOTE ]

There really is an In-n-Out burger? I always just thought it was something off the Big Labowski. There you go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah. 6 in-n-out burgers is perfect for the 7 hour drive home from Vegas. I'm kind of a big eater. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Obliky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I like burritos, but if I was going out west, it would be for an In-n-Out burger, not Del Taco.

[/ QUOTE ]

There really is an In-n-Out burger? I always just thought it was something off the Big Labowski. There you go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah. 6 in-n-out burgers is perfect for the 7 hour drive home from Vegas. I'm kind of a big eater. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

6...are you serious?? Holy KJo

[tiltaholic]

you people all (well, not all, but most) need to calm down and realize this isn't an entirely dumb question.

and because the poster is new, how's about we all act normal?

i don't think certain threads would have been killed if made by certain posters (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=1851907)

[Reqtech]

I thought that we were are all crushing the microlimits in our own special way? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I don't think that I've seen anyone post win rates of less that 5BB/100 over 100K hands, so I'm pretty that you'll be well served by entering everyone's posts into a Matrix, then calculate the determinant to narrow down the most correct of the posts for extreme results.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
to mister wookie:

excuse me, it is anything BUT poor reasoning. if i am in ignorance, my ignorance includes an ignorance to what is "right". it is precisely because i am ignorant of what is "right", that i ask, who can i identify as capable of replying in a "right" fashion. i can cite multiple instances of hand evaluations that seem "correct" to me, but are also obviously antinomies. who of the authors of these conflicting interpretations is "right"?

and please donot reply with that commoness, it's all relative, or, they both are.

your comment was exceedingly poor reasoning, and exceedingly arrogant as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
totally! Put that bitch in his place!

OMFGROFLMAO WOOK JUST GOT PWNEDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Hey I say we make this lying thief guy a mod he so obviously knows more than me or wook. What do you say guys? Oh wait you don't know sh*t about poker either. Guess we are just screwed.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Haha, these are so old school. This who taught us to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
No those aren't old school. ML regulars when I started (back in my nano days):

bisonbison
sfer (now the daver)
sthief09 (now Josh)
Chris Daddy Cool
btspider
Ed Miller would even make an appearance sometimes!

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Reqtech]

[ QUOTE ]
you people all (well, not all, but most) need to calm down and realize this isn't an entirely dumb question.

and because the poster is new, how's about we all act normal?

i don't think certain threads would have been killed if made by certain posters (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=1851907)

[/ QUOTE ]

"Dear Posters of Micro Limit,

I cannot be bothered with taking the time and energy of reading and studying SSHE or &lt;insert authoritative poker text&gt; and then reading posts and posting thoughtfully.

Instead, I'd like for those of you who have taken the effort to improve their game to point out all posters who they feel as being poker gawds so that I can have poker knowledge spoonfed to me.

Also, as a special note to the mods, I humbly request that all of my questions be answered by Sklansky, Malmuth, and Miller. They owe me that for posting on their boards.

Thank you."

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
you people all (well, not all, but most) need to calm down and realize this isn't an entirely dumb question.

and because the poster is new, how's about we all act normal?

i don't think certain threads would have been killed if made by certain posters (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=1851907)

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought the answers were good. OP asked if there was a way to "determine the skill level and profitability" of posters. How would you answer that question?

We can start a "respected poster" thread if you want. It'll probably end up similar to the archive one. Maybe people are just being coy and waiting for someone else to start listing people so they can see if they're included.

Regardless, OP never asked for a list. And his tone left much to be desired, hence our responses.

[jaxUp]

yeah, nice catch tilt. Some people overreacted a bit, but I think it was more because of OP's tone, and not because of the request. Also, it did spark some good discussion with eskimo, myself, numeri, and a few others.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
bisonbison
sfer (now the daver)
sthief09 (now Josh)
Chris Daddy Cool
btspider
Ed Miller would even make an appearance sometimes!



[/ QUOTE ]

those were the old days. Ofcourse back then I just read the forum, and never posted. But I did learn a lot from those guys.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you people all (well, not all, but most) need to calm down and realize this isn't an entirely dumb question.

and because the poster is new, how's about we all act normal?

i don't think certain threads would have been killed if made by certain posters (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=1851907)

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought the answers were good. OP asked if there was a way to "determine the skill level and profitability" of posters. How would you answer that question?

We can start a "respected poster" thread if you want. It'll probably end up similar to the archive one. Maybe people are just being coy and waiting for someone else to start listing people so they can see if they're included.

Regardless, OP never asked for a list. And his tone left much to be desired, hence our responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure.
i think it was tonal too.
just trying to point out what i pointed out.

[tiltaholic]

instead of listing good player(s)/poster(s), since clearly I'd be on the top of a list of one, here are some links that might help you decide for yourself.

AIM name thread with limits (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=2543150)

2005 goals thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=1491925)

the coaching link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=3560296)

[chadplusplus]

Let's not forget Qdoba - Chipotle's bastard twin brother.

They finally opened one in Morgantown. First time I had one of those beautiful, beautiful burritos since I left Colorado. I ate there three times in 2 days (~4200 calories!!).

Does that put my winrate at 1400 calories/meal? Cause that corrolates to my awesome post count.

And to kill two pigeons with one stone, 1/2 6max does rule.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you people all (well, not all, but most) need to calm down and realize this isn't an entirely dumb question.

and because the poster is new, how's about we all act normal?

i don't think certain threads would have been killed if made by certain posters (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=1851907)

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought the answers were good. OP asked if there was a way to "determine the skill level and profitability" of posters. How would you answer that question?

We can start a "respected poster" thread if you want. It'll probably end up similar to the archive one. Maybe people are just being coy and waiting for someone else to start listing people so they can see if they're included.

Regardless, OP never asked for a list. And his tone left much to be desired, hence our responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure.
i think it was tonal too.
just trying to point out what i pointed out.

[/ QUOTE ]

It realy boils down to the fact that in most threads, even on those where there is no definative consensus, there is something that will be benificial. Just because someone says something that is incorrect does not mean it is entirely meritless. The discourse itself is beneficial. In trying to explain that to OP he turned into a total ass, and demonstrated what I found to be intellectual laziness (it's right or it's wrong, and wrong = bad, gamesetmatch, stfu). And he was correctly smacked down.

[aargh57]

While the question may not be a bad one and may have some merits discussing from reading the few posts that this guy has he comes off as abrassive and very arrogant. In this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=3762736&amp;page=) he asks for some honest answers to WR and such. He's very long winded and explains about how he supported himself through sports betting and how he's got a doctorate in classical literature. for someone with a literature degree i would expect one or two capital letters. Sorry, I guess this is petty but he comes in here and insults Wookie and other posters. I just don't like the guy. I don't think this thread would've been killed by other posters either but that's because most other poster's wouldn't have responded like this guy.

i will struggle hard to be appropriately servile in the future. will servility suffice to locate the winners?

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
i will struggle hard to be appropriately servile in the future. will servility suffice to locate the winners?

[/ QUOTE ]

I take it back. You are not a sarcastic jerk. I'm sure your attitude will make everyone here bend over backwards to help you out.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
i will struggle hard to be appropriately servile in the future. will servility suffice to locate the winners?

[/ QUOTE ]

(F**k, I really wanted to stay out of this thread. Meh.)

To lyingthief: from reading the post referenced by aargh, you clearly don't believe that it's possible to win at poker. So, all I can believe is that this is some sort of attempt by you to get everyone on the forum to admit that they aren't winning, and slink away in shame, salaaming all the way to your intellectual might. That can't work, because it isn't true.

To everyone else: don't feed the troll.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
i will struggle hard to be appropriately servile in the future. will servility suffice to locate the winners?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, with all due respect,

You seem to want instant answers. You seem to think that knowing who are 'the best' posters, or 'the most knowledgeable' or 'the biggest winners' will help you in some way.
The more you put into these boards, the more that you get out of them. The more you read, and post, and see how your thinking may be incorrect, the more you will learn. And by doing that you will begin to gather your own favourite group of posters. The ones that help you the most. I have my own. I'm not going to list them here. Suffice to say that some posters who don't help me very much, help others in many ways. Of that I have no doubt.
A lot of posters here put a great deal of time and energy into these boards, not only to help themselves, but to help others. When we get someone who arrogantly demands to know who are 'the best' posters, without contributing anything of real value to the boards, the posters here are apt to get a bit touchy.
I love the micros. I'm playing above it's supposed limits now. But I have developed a relationship with a lot of the guys and gals on here. So this is where I stay. You would be wise to do the same.

[Obliky]

[ QUOTE ]
from reading the post referenced by aargh

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol...thats so python-esqe. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

apology means "defense".

in my defense, i should like to make a few comments.

comment 1) the desire to know who wins is natural to any sensible man wishing to learn how to win. i suppose one may approach the problem in a contrarian way, and ask the losers how they win, and then do the opposite. this is machiavellian, however, and apt to lead the practicioner of it into the trap of incorrect deduction.

comment 2) in my cited post, i asked for a measure of honesty. in this post i asked bluntly, "who wins?". IN NEITHER POST WAS ANY ANSWER FORTHCOMING THAT IDENTIFIED WINNERS. a great number of, to be charitable i will not call them preposterous, claims about 15bb per hour, and never a losing week, etc, were offered, but not the evidence to support them. i met these claims with, i hope, a very dampened and polite skepticism; but some of the claims were certainly dubious. highly dubious. for me, it is difficult to determine the meaning of the bb/hr or bb/100 method of describing one's win rate. ROI is succinct and deadly. tell me your win% and your ROI, and i will give you a mathematically exact determination of your profitability, and the number of cases necessary to validate it. i dont see that here.

(i have found indications of a .05 ME for the better limit players. this is a very small edge, and hardly better than random, which is why so very many trials are necessary prior to adducing that this figure is an edge at all. and which is why i am further skeptical of the assertions here: if that's the ME of the best players, and by admission, YOU are not the best players, your statistics are bereft of valid support, unless you have an extraordinary number of trials. and if i should wish to listen to those with statistically valid sample size and positive ROI.? well g.damn, ain't that a crime!??!!!)

comment 3) i have made a living "gambling". i am a winner. and i'm proud as hell of that, you betcha. i became a winner by hard work, determination, self control, and talent. i have known very few winners, and many, many pretenders to the claim. many, indeed. it has raised a concern in me, if you dont mind my saying so, for when i ask after those who win, to model their reasoning patterns, i am met with a gamut of non-answers, derisions, even villifications. perhaps you monitors should, as several have suggested, post this thread in a permanent place. entitle it, CAVEAT EMPTOR. as my self image is robust, i am not at all bemused by the tone or personal character of your statements to me. i remind myself that it is a method of the snake-oil specialist not to answer the skeptic, but to insult him. this is another symptom which, to me, makes your claims questionable. perhaps new posters, if they are remotely capable of removing the stars and gaga of easy money from their eyes, would be enlightened to learn that the merest question of the claims of infinite riches made with such saccharine testimonial here, are met with resounding and escalating abuse of the questioner.

comment 4) i do not at all doubt that there are winners at the game. substantial winners. i have won at the .25/.50 level, but not any higher. i break even at the .5/1 level. i have been playing two months. i have played roughly 20k hands. i studied a number of works--i admit that i did not read the pantheon at 2+2 exclusively, but i hope that small heresy will be forgiven me, as i think no man or party in complete possession of the truth--and practiced with wilson's software prior to playing. again, i hope you will pardon my saying so, but i remain skeptical of the extolled illuminatory nature of SSH. far too many of the players at these lower limits have read the book; and if any thing is true, the dissemination of knowledge tends in time to nullify the edge that knowledge may have provided prior to its wide spread adoption. this is a principle stay in the "random walk" hypothesis, so famous in arguments about the financial markets. SSH is very probably applicable to the most rudimentary limits ONLY, which is where the majority of the ignorant settle; and if it's not, it shall be soon enough.

comment 5) despite the bad weather come my way, i am oblivious to the majority of comments posted here. i am basically appealing not to the approval of the lackwit but to the consideration of the winners. i would pay for their help.

so, in summation, i do not feel an apology is necessary. and to the unprejudiced few who have read or will read this thread, i caution you to take note; take very careful note. this kind of treatment is undoubtedly reserved for anyone who dares to question the veracity of the claims, and those who claim them. this is a warning sign, friends. a very, very important warning sign, and one to be weighed carefully.

yea, by their fruits shall ye know them.

(oh, and lastly: consistEntly is the preferred spelling. it is derived from a latin verb root of the e-stem class. google "consistAntly" and see what it says. you see, when it comes to word origins and grammar, YOU DONT KNOW AND I DO. and i know when YOU dont know. and that pretty much describes who im looking for in the poker playing ranks, thank you; the one that knows when i dont. and any man who'll wager significant sums on what SEEMS to be true, or what is ARGUABLY or RATIONALLY apparent, has little hope of survival. perhaps this is why "truth" founded on argument and conjecture has the odor of the dinosaur about it? and why scientific method was developed to replace it?

[milesdyson]

allow me to unequivocally own you, oh mighty user of the thesaurus.

[ QUOTE ]
tell me your win% and your ROI, and i will give you a mathematically exact determination of your profitability, and the number of cases necessary to validate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
i am a winner. and i'm proud as hell of that, you betcha. i became a winner by hard work, determination, self control, and talent... i have won at the .25/.50 level

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
i have played roughly 20k hands

[/ QUOTE ]

[mmbt0ne]

[ QUOTE ]
Shillx

[/ QUOTE ]

Fish

[ QUOTE ]
Entity

[/ QUOTE ]

Lucky

[ QUOTE ]
btspider

[/ QUOTE ]

Donkey

[ QUOTE ]
Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Italian

[ QUOTE ]
deathdonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

ACTUAL Donkey

[ QUOTE ]
Grunchcan

[/ QUOTE ]

OH-ver-RAY-ted


Basically, you can trust me to be right.

Oh yeah, and Chipotle is the antipwn. It's a glorified Moe's.

[POKhER]

Such overuse of complexed words with so very little use of punctuation and correctly placed capitals. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Look, you're asking for help and pretty much trying to make everyone here feel stupid.

Now go and replace your thesauruas with some 2+2 books, Log XXXXXXXXX number of hands then have your PT stats checked(After creating a new username and not sounding like a jack ass).

That will get you a tad more respect than what your currently have.

Oh, and read Micro Forums.

Oh... and don't try to correct my spelling, grammar, or punctuation.... Instead, Go read the forums.

[ QUOTE ]
despite the weather, i am oblivious to the majority of comments posted here. i am basically appealing not to the approval of these lackwits--who have, like erstwhile jerichos, blown their dismissive horns about my skeptical walls--but to the winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

Barron?

[imported_The Vibesman]

I honestly could never read something that long without any capitalization. At least put two spaces after your periods if you're going to do that. You can certainly find the shift key when you want to yell at people.

[ QUOTE ]
Basically, you can trust me to be right.

Oh yeah, and Chipotle is the antipwn. It's a glorified Moe's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! I love it when Bison swoops in with authority. As usual he is comepletely right! Moes completely pwns Chipotle! I'll take a Triple Lindy or Homewrecker anyday!

[shadow29]

I am the best.

But you are right in that a lot of posters here don't play as near as well as they post.

I really [censored] rock at poker, so you can follow all of my advice. If you do that, you have a shot of being 1/8 as good as I am.

lata.

[MrWookie47]

Alright, I think this thread has already overlived its stay. It shall die a timely death before this flame war gets any bigger. It's getting locked. If anyone has a problem with that, they can PM me.

Added by Greg: I was just about to lock it too.

A troll using big words is still a troll.