Online pros: How many STTs per day?

[jwvdcw]

Gonna make a run at playing Party's $215s full time. I want to be very organized- something I'm not always good at. So I'm going to keep stats of my results.

With that said, assuming that I'm shooting for a $100K yearly salary, and that I have shown over time the ability to consistently beat the $215s(I realize that some exact numbers would help here, but I have none to give...sorry), how many STTs should I aim for each day?

I can 10 table, so getting to 50 or more isn't that difficult.

[Newt_Buggs]

How do you expect other people to know what you are capable of?

[Hendricks433]

what ROI would you expect 10 tabling the 215's? Seems like most people do less because the tables are harder. Does this make sense? Whats the max tables at a time people play for the $215's?

[Iamafish]

You shouldn't really play less than 1000 a month. So about 50 sng's/day, 5 days/week.

Good luck.

[Hendricks433]

so 8 tabling could easily get 1000 a month in. At 5% ROI is like 10K a month roughly. Is 5% attainable? Ive heard theres some nasty swings.

[Iamafish]

I think 10% is attainable...i dunno about sustainable.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I think 10% is attainable...i dunno about sustainable.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats not helpful...a sustainable ROI is what this is all about. I had a pretty fat ROI when I went 1 for 1...so it was attainable.

[Iamafish]

chill, I dont play 215's.

Justin Bonomo had like I think a 13% after 1000. I don't know what it would be at 4000 sng's, maybe 5%. Other players have different results.

Ask someone with 3000-4000 sng's.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
chill, I dont play 215's.

Justin Bonomo had like I think a 13% after 1000. I don't know what it would be at 4000 sng's, maybe 5%. Other players have different results.

Ask someone with 3000-4000 sng's.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, sorry I didnt mean to sound like I was jumping down your throat...I dont play them either. Just meant to say that for someone considering playing these for a living doesnt care what ROI is "attainable"...its sort of meaningless. Sorry though! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[quinn]

[ QUOTE ]
Is 5% attainable? Ive heard theres some nasty swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Justin Bonomo had like I think a 13% after 1000. I don't know what it would be at 4000 sng's, maybe 5%.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm..ROI is independent of variance?

Couldn't you just as easily believe that Justin's ROI would be 18% after 4000 sngs?

[Melchiades]

Will you be openraising QQ+ with 7-10 BB's here too?

[Iamafish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is 5% attainable? Ive heard theres some nasty swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Justin Bonomo had like I think a 13% after 1000. I don't know what it would be at 4000 sng's, maybe 5%.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm..ROI is independent of variance?

Couldn't you just as easily believe that Justin's ROI would be 18% after 4000 sngs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont really understand what you mean but...

1 - 18% impossible
2 - 1000 is still far from true ROI. His next 1000 could be a 3%.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you expect other people to know what you are capable of?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm "capable" of playing as many as I need to in order to succeed doing this full time. However, theres other areas in my life(staying in shape, religion, etc.) where I'd like to dedicate some tiime to, so I am wondering the minimum I could play each day and still meet my goals.

Obviously I don't expect any of you to have an exact answer for my situation, but I would think that some have faced a similar scenario in the past and might be able to give some helpful advice.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
chill, I dont play 215's.

Justin Bonomo had like I think a 13% after 1000. I don't know what it would be at 4000 sng's, maybe 5%. Other players have different results.

Ask someone with 3000-4000 sng's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll post some stats after here each month just if anyone is curious to have these questions answered.

[ZeroPointMachine]

Let me get this straight. You don't know how to calculate how many SNGs you need to play to make X per month given an ROI of Y. You've never really bothered to calculate your ROI, but you know you can beat the 215's 10 at a time. Now you are ready to drop $2000+ per set, just tell me how many to play....

Man, if your looking for a way to blow your bankroll I can think of a million more enjoyable ways to do it, but 10-tabling the 215's will be very efficient if your pressed for time.

I'm sure the 215 guys who are sharpening their knives right now will be pissed that anybody would tell you not to dive right in.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
chill, I dont play 215's.

Justin Bonomo had like I think a 13% after 1000. I don't know what it would be at 4000 sng's, maybe 5%. Other players have different results.

Ask someone with 3000-4000 sng's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll post some stats after here each month just if anyone is curious to have these questions answered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please read the FAQ about posting stats. Thank you.

[durron597]

Dude... you're better than this. I know you are, you know you are.

You know how do to the math.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight. You don't know how to calculate how many SNGs you need to play to make X per month given an ROI of Y. You've never really bothered to calculate your ROI, but you know you can beat the 215's 10 at a time. Now you are ready to drop $2000+ per set, just tell me how many to play....

Man, if your looking for a way to blow your bankroll I can think of a million more enjoyable ways to do it, but 10-tabling the 215's will be very efficient if your pressed for time.

I'm sure the 215 guys who are sharpening their knives right now will be pissed that anybody would tell you not to dive right in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played at this level for over 3 years as I've been working full time or a student. I've made over $40,000 in those 3 years just on STTs and another $60,000 or so playing MTTs. That is why I'm confident. Its just that I've never kept any exact stats.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude... you're better than this. I know you are, you know you are.

You know how do to the math.

[/ QUOTE ]

math doesn't take into account fatigue and your play getting worse if you play too much.

If anyone can actually answer my question, I'd appriciate it.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
chill, I dont play 215's.

Justin Bonomo had like I think a 13% after 1000. I don't know what it would be at 4000 sng's, maybe 5%. Other players have different results.

Ask someone with 3000-4000 sng's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll post some stats after here each month just if anyone is curious to have these questions answered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please read the FAQ about posting stats. Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

"The short answer is that most likely no one cares about your stats. But if you’re thinking about posting them, there’s probably a reason. Before you do so, you should know that to come to any sort of idea about what your “actual” stats are, you’re going to have to play about 500 games at a level before anyone takes your numbers seriously. Smaller sample sizes are just plain old too small to be worthwhile. Here is a very good thread about confidence intervals and SNGs. Here is another. "

If I make one thread and it gets no responses, then I'll be able to take a hint and I won't post them anymore. I just thought that since nobody could really answer the question and people themselves were asking, that it might be of some interest. And yes, I'll definitely wait until I'm over 500 games before posting.

[redsoxsox]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight. You don't know how to calculate how many SNGs you need to play to make X per month given an ROI of Y. You've never really bothered to calculate your ROI, but you know you can beat the 215's 10 at a time. Now you are ready to drop $2000+ per set, just tell me how many to play....

Man, if your looking for a way to blow your bankroll I can think of a million more enjoyable ways to do it, but 10-tabling the 215's will be very efficient if your pressed for time.

I'm sure the 215 guys who are sharpening their knives right now will be pissed that anybody would tell you not to dive right in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because he doesnt keep exact stats of his Roi doesnt mean hes not a good player.

Never really saw an answer, so I'll toss one in..

From FAQ: "215s - 7% ROI" expected for solid multitable performance.

ROI*(BuyIn) = expected return per game = epg
Annual/epg = games required for annual = G/yr
then divide that by 52 (or 50, for a couple weeks off) for a games/week or whatever, so

7%*215 = 15.5 epg
100,000/15.5 = 6645 games/yr
6645/50 = 133 games/week

or if you're pessimistic (like me):
5% ROI => 186 g/wk
3% ROI => 310 g/wk
So, 50/day should be enough.
<sarcasm>
but, without knowing the ROI, who knows. Despite the shape of the curve defined by those 3 points, playing infinite games will yield no profit from negative ROI.
</sarcasm>

[sofere]

[ QUOTE ]
If I make one thread and it gets no responses, then I'll be able to take a hint and I won't post them anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses from this forum because...

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue">...we, as a collective, have made a decision to suck, replying over and over again to the crappiest posts... </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW you're asking us to tell you how many SNG you should play is kind of a catch 22. You asked us while not providing any information other than you've played 215s profitably before (multitabling?, how many games?, what ROI?, what $/hour?, what are your time constraints?, personal preferences?) All of those are questions that need to be answered to make an informed decision. However, if you can provide us all that info, you can do the calculation yourself. Hence the catch 22, and why "How many SNGs should I play per day" posts pretty useless.

Basically, play as many SNGs as you can play profitably while not being able to keep up with your prerequisites (one prerequisite being keeping your sanity).

[Apathy]

8 tabling low double digits is doable longterm, but when planning for the future always use a signifigantly lower number to account for tilt fatigue etc.

This includes using a lower number for your estimate of # games/ week.


To the poster in this thread that said that you should never be playing less then 1k stts a month, I would like to say that I rarely play 1k stts a month and I play for a living and do just fine.

Playing well when you do and using your great amount of free time to live your life the way you want and enjoy yourself is what its all about.

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing well when you do and using your great amount of free time to live your life the way you want and enjoy yourself is what its all about.

[/ QUOTE ]

amen

[jwvdcw]

sorry if this is a basic question, but when calculating ROI do you include the rake lost? And if so, then do you also calculate any rakeback? I think 30/day(210 per week) is easily attainable without burning out at all.

[inyaface]

[ QUOTE ]


To the poster in this thread that said that you should never be playing less then 1k stts a month, I would like to say that I rarely play 1k stts a month and I play for a living and do just fine.

Playing well when you do and using your great amount of free time to live your life the way you want and enjoy yourself is what its all about.

[/ QUOTE ]


I really wanted to have a good "chirp" for you right now but I'm writing an essay and your gambooling. All I can think of is stop being so lazy... /images/graemlins/confused.gif...yeh I got nothing just make sure you have your drinking hat on for this Saturday.

[jwvdcw]

Had a great first 1/2 month(I didn't quit my job until Nov. 15, so I only started keeping stats on the 16th). My November stats:

343 $215 STTs played
48 1st places
40 2nd places
48 3rd places
47 4th places
49 5th places
41 6th places
21 7th places
29 8th places
13 9th places
7 10th places

total buy ins: $73745
total cash out: $91200
results: + $17455
ROI: 23.67%

Days played: 12(went on vacations for Thanksgiving, so I missed 4 days of playing)
Winning days: 8
Losing days: 4
Best Day: +$5775
Worst Day: -$1290

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
Had a great first 1/2 month(I didn't quit my job until Nov. 15, so I only started keeping stats on the 16th). My November stats:

343 $215 STTs played
48 1st places
40 2nd places
48 3rd places
47 4th places
49 5th places
41 6th places
21 7th places
29 8th places
13 9th places
7 10th places

total buy ins: $73745
total cash out: $91200
results: + $17455
ROI: 23.67%

Days played: 12(went on vacations for Thanksgiving, so I missed 4 days of playing)
Winning days: 8
Losing days: 4
Best Day: +$5775
Worst Day: -$1290

[/ QUOTE ]
Damn....your last 343 games at the 215s are better than my ROI at the 33s. I want to make 17K in 12 days. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Had a great first 1/2 month(I didn't quit my job until Nov. 15, so I only started keeping stats on the 16th). My November stats:

343 $215 STTs played
48 1st places
40 2nd places
48 3rd places
47 4th places
49 5th places
41 6th places
21 7th places
29 8th places
13 9th places
7 10th places

total buy ins: $73745
total cash out: $91200
results: + $17455
ROI: 23.67%

Days played: 12(went on vacations for Thanksgiving, so I missed 4 days of playing)
Winning days: 8
Losing days: 4
Best Day: +$5775
Worst Day: -$1290

[/ QUOTE ]
Damn....your last 343 games at the 215s are better than my ROI at the 33s. I want to make 17K in 12 days. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously...very nice assani.

[Gramps]

My pokertracker has you at -$2,455 over 57 215s that we've played together during that stretch, so you must be running insanely hot over those other 286...

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
My pokertracker has you at -$2,455 over 57 215s that we've played together during that stretch, so you must be running insanely hot over those other 286...

[/ QUOTE ]

nh.

[Nick M]

If you're going to play the 215s for a living, than you're shooting to low at 100k a year. You can make that at the 55s. Do the math dude.

on a side note...do the 215s go off enough to 10 table????? They don't on pokerstars, maybe it's different on party.

[FieryJustice]

fwiw, I always thought you was pretty solid.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to play the 215s for a living, than you're shooting to low at 100k a year. You can make that at the 55s. Do the math dude.

on a side note...do the 215s go off enough to 10 table????? They don't on pokerstars, maybe it's different on party.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's different

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
My pokertracker has you at -$2,455 over 57 215s that we've played together during that stretch, so you must be running insanely hot over those other 286...

[/ QUOTE ]

who are you? Do you use a different sn on Party? I don't know what to tell you but those stats are exact from Nov. 16-30

[Nick M]

[ QUOTE ]
I've played at this level for over 3 years as I've been working full time or a student. I've made over $40,000 in those 3 years just on STTs...

[/ QUOTE ]

huh???? this doesn't seem to jive with the numbers you posted above...do you mean you've been playing SNGs for 3 years??? Or do you really mean you've been playing the 215s for 3 years and only made 40k....I'm very confused.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to play the 215s for a living, than you're shooting to low at 100k a year. You can make that at the 55s. Do the math dude.

on a side note...do the 215s go off enough to 10 table????? They don't on pokerstars, maybe it's different on party.

[/ QUOTE ]

100K is fine for me for now(23 yr old kid with no bills whasoever to pay), but if you're saying that I"m going to make even more then I see no reason to argue with that.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to play the 215s for a living, than you're shooting to low at 100k a year. You can make that at the 55s. Do the math dude.

on a side note...do the 215s go off enough to 10 table????? They don't on pokerstars, maybe it's different on party.

[/ QUOTE ]

During prime time, the $215s will fill up in less than a minute. During the slow times, it takes maybe 3 minutes to fill one up.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've played at this level for over 3 years as I've been working full time or a student. I've made over $40,000 in those 3 years just on STTs...

[/ QUOTE ]

huh???? this doesn't seem to jive with the numbers you posted above...do you mean you've been playing SNGs for 3 years??? Or do you really mean you've been playing the 215s for 3 years and only made 40k....I'm very confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been playing poker seriously for over 3 years. I probably started playing the $215s 2.5 years ago. But I never 10 tabled until recently, and I was alsways a student or had a job until a few weeks ago, so I didn't play as much as I am now. The 40K is an estimate but I'd say that its fairly accurate. I have been up and down over that time, especially early on when I was still refining my game(not at all implying that I don't have much more to learn even still).

[Gramps]

Yeah, I was counting the first week of December. I think you were -$235 over 29 for the November period.

You'll find that there's lots of people that come through here and post their e-penises...er...the results from their heaters. At least you had a "preview post" and were updating the results after that, but if you'd run like crap for the past 1/2 month, odds are you wouldn't have posted an update (or would have been a lot less likely to).

The fact that you didn't post the first 6 days of December (where you were down $2k in the 28 we played) is (odds are) reflective of the tendency that a lot of people have when posting their results online. It sounds like you didn't have any bad intentions, but it just gets a bit old (again, there's lots of people that do this, and lot don't even have more "benign intentions" in doing so).

There was some debate on here a while back (and I realize you're not doing this, but some people have) with people claiming that 20% ROI long-term in the 215s was doable, and listed were 7 players who had supposedly claimed that rate at some point. I went back through my pokertracker stats, (only finding 4 players in there), and had that foursome at something like 5% ROI (+/- a few %, I don't remember exactly) over about 1,000 SNGs.

You're probably fired up about doing well the first couple of weeks after quitting your job as you should be, but the posting of 20%+ heaters in the 215s (and usually for as big a sample size as the heater lasts - people don't post only 1/2 a heater) got old a long time ago. Acknowledging one's 40+ buy-in drops, or break-even/losing streak over 500 SNGs+ is something that is done less frequently, but is more refreshing (usually).

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I was counting the first week of December. I think you were -$235 over 29 for the November period.

You'll find that there's lots of people that come through here and post their e-penises...er...the results from their heaters. At least you had a "preview post" and were updating the results after that, but if you'd run like crap for the past 1/2 month, odds are you wouldn't have posted an update (or would have been a lot less likely to).

The fact that you didn't post the first 6 days of December (where you were down $2k in the 28 we played) is (odds are) reflective of the tendency that a lot of people have when posting their results online. It sounds like you didn't have any bad intentions, but it just gets a bit old (again, there's lots of people that do this, and lot don't even have more "benign intentions" in doing so).

There was some debate on here a while back (and I realize you're not doing this, but some people have) with people claiming that 20% ROI long-term in the 215s was doable, and listed were 7 players who had supposedly claimed that rate at some point. I went back through my pokertracker stats, (only finding 4 players in there), and had that foursome at something like 5% ROI (+/- a few %, I don't remember exactly) over about 1,000 SNGs.

You're probably fired up about doing well the first couple of weeks after quitting your job as you should be, but the posting of 20%+ heaters in the 215s (and usually for as big a sample size as the heater lasts - people don't post only 1/2 a heater) got old a long time ago. Acknowledging one's 40+ buy-in drops, or break-even/losing streak over 500 SNGs+ is something that is done less frequently, but is more refreshing (usually).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I got killed on Dec. 2, 4, and 5th- lost my stats for the 2nd, lost $1400 and $2100 on the other two days.

[jwvdcw]

I understand your sentiments. Let me be the first to tell you that the entire point of this thread is to help me in my journey as a poker pro, not to brag or boast. That is the sole reason I will post stats- For one, it motivates me because I'll have to be accountable. Secondly, other people may be able to chip in with advice.

If anyone(not accusing you of this) doesn't like me posting stats or thinks that I'm "showing off" then by all means just click the back button and be on your way. These forums are great because they provide us with a lot of different topics regarding poker, and we have to freedom to choose which discussions we want to be a part of and which ones we don't think are worthwhile. I have no problem with anyone posting anything(about poker)- I do have a problem with people that reply in threads about how stupid the thread is...if you don't like it, just move on. Why even waste your time to just bash someone else's thread?

I'm off to a rough start in December, but you can rest assured that my December stats will be posted here after the month concludes even if I lose $50,000.

[microbet]

You've got the full histories of all the games you busted out of, right?

Feel free to reply "of course, you moran!"

[Gramps]

Wow, that's an extremely good point (I'm serious). I've been hitting the the 50 tournament summary max at Party since the split with my 8-10 tabling there (I think I hit it only 2 or three times it when I'd 4-table Empire and 4-table Eurobet in 8 SNG sets, and that would only be like a hour or less before it reset and I started getting the again). So, I get all of my own stats from the HH stored on my hard drive, but it will underrepresent the results for those players that I play SNGs aginst after that 50-max (around 6-9 p.m. PST usually, it resets at midnight EST) - PT deducts the buy-in once you load the first hand into it, it only credits your winnings after loading the full summary (or at least the hand you bust, where it will say "____ finished 1st/2nd/3rd and made ____." (or whatever it says exactly)

Goddamn it, now I can't present evidence to help debunk some of the wild claims that go on here. I'll say, "well before the splits, in the ___ SNGs I played agianst these players, they..." and the person making outrageous claims will be like, "I'm talking about after the split mor-an, you can do like 100% ROI with my new secret strategy," and I'll be like, "Well my PT stas show strong evidence to the...er...um...goddamit!!!!"

[Gramps]

No worries, I hope it came through that what I was talking about was more general-oriented, didn't mean to hate on you for any particular reason. You seem to have your head on straight FWIW.

[Mr_J]

Assume we will work 300 days a year (43 weeks) and 10 table continuously (14/hr), 25% RB, and play for 100k.

11s: 55hr/week at 25% ROI.

22s: 34hr/week at 20% ROI.

33s: 29hr/week at 15% ROI.

55s: 25hr/week at 10% ROI.

109s: 15hr/week at 8% ROI.

215s: 10hr/week at 6% ROI.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
You've got the full histories of all the games you busted out of, right?

Feel free to reply "of course, you moran!"

[/ QUOTE ]

I never have looked at hand histories or used Poker Tracker. I take it that you think I should start doing so?

[jwvdcw]

Also, I don't have rakeback yet. I already have a guy who has talked to me(so please no offers in my PM box), but I'd be interested in hearing about how easy it is to set up another account and not get in trouble with Party for doing so.

[mlagoo]

psstt

we dont really use the "rb" word around here

[jwvdcw]

Oh sorry...didn't know. Any reason why not?

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, I'll definitely wait until I'm over 500 games before posting.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My November stats:

343 $215 STTs played...


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised no one else picked up on this. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You've got the full histories of all the games you busted out of, right?

Feel free to reply "of course, you moran!"

[/ QUOTE ]

I never have looked at hand histories or used Poker Tracker. I take it that you think I should start doing so?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was replying to Gramps.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And yes, I'll definitely wait until I'm over 500 games before posting.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My November stats:

343 $215 STTs played...


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised no one else picked up on this. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/smirk.gif