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TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 02:16 PM
http://www.avlena.com/pics/HolidayExtravaganza/images/Holiday%20Extravaganza%20-%20Beer%20Pong%20-%2002.jpg

Shajen
11-15-2005, 02:17 PM
Never played it.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 02:24 PM
That is beer pong, aka Beirut.

I normally play with 10 cups if it's a small gathering, 6 cups if there are 10+ people playing.

I've never played it with paddles, but I've heard of this being done in the midwest.

The bounce is a legal shot, but can be swatted, and if you make it, you must drink 2 cups instead of one.

And cripples should not play this game as shown in your picture. It requires great reflexes to catch the ball when your opponents miss.

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:28 PM
That table is too small. Also, once a cup has been hit, the defending team has the responsibility of removing that cup from the table before the second shooter shoots. If they fail to do this, and the second shooter hits the same cup, it's game over.

And losers have to drink all remaining cups on the table.

edtost
11-15-2005, 02:29 PM
That is beirut, which is played with 10 cups and usually 3-4 beers.

Pong is played with paddles, 6 cups, and 4-5 beers (whatever constitutes a full pitcher). A table that short/narrow would make for a really really bad pong game.

CheckRaise
11-15-2005, 02:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That is beer pong, aka Beirut.

I normally play with 10 cups if it's a small gathering, 6 cups if there are 10+ people playing.


I've never played it with paddles, but I've heard of this being done in the midwest.

The bounce is a legal shot, but can be swatted, and if you make it, you must drink 2 cups instead of one.

And cripples should not play this game as shown in your picture. It requires great reflexes to catch the ball when your opponents miss.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is how we play it, bounces can be swatted, if made you must drink two cups. If we have two people on each team then you must give the balls back if they make both shots. Great game, another question is how much beer do you guys use when filling the cups. Half full, quarter full?

Evan
11-15-2005, 02:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I've never played it with paddles, but I've heard of this being done in the midwest.

[/ QUOTE ]
They play it with paddles at Priceton too. I think it's much more fun without paddles.

kenberman
11-15-2005, 02:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That is beer pong, aka Beirut.

I normally play with 10 cups if it's a small gathering, 6 cups if there are 10+ people playing.

I've never played it with paddles, but I've heard of this being done in the midwest.

The bounce is a legal shot, but can be swatted, and if you make it, you must drink 2 cups instead of one.

And cripples should not play this game as shown in your picture. It requires great reflexes to catch the ball when your opponents miss.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, beer pong is different than beirut.

the pictured game is beirut, which involves throwing, and sometimes bouncing, ping pong balls into cups.

beer pong is played with paddles, just like regular ping pong. except, there are 2 cups per side, and the object is to 1) hit the opponents cup and 2) score points after the cup is hit

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 02:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
another question is how much beer do you guys use when filling the cups

[/ QUOTE ]

3 beers/side for 10 cups
2 beers/side for 6 cups

Evan
11-15-2005, 02:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
how much beer do you guys use when filling the cups. Half full, quarter full?

[/ QUOTE ]
Usually about 1/4-1/3. Not so much that drinking an individual cup slows down the game. Sometimes the middle cup is full, I'm not sure how common that is though.

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:33 PM
Those looking for variations. (http://www.nbpl.net/rulesno.html)

Evan
11-15-2005, 02:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
beer pong is played with paddles, just like regular ping pong. except, there are 2 cups per side

[/ QUOTE ]
WTF?

samjjones
11-15-2005, 02:35 PM
Why are one of the cups turned upside down?

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 02:36 PM
Awesome Post. Within my friend group we play.

Beer Pong/Beirut (we use both names)

No paddles (thats weird)

Bounces count as 2 cups (no ball return), but can be swatted.

We used to let everyone blow, but now have removed it (too many arguments)

Two in one cup used to end the game, we are also moving away from that.

You don't have to wait for both people to throw to throw again, "Speed Pong"..hell when we first played in college, we had "full contact/loose ball" rules. Basically if you missed, it was anyones ball.

kenberman
11-15-2005, 02:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Great game, another question is how much beer do you guys use when filling the cups. Half full, quarter full?

[/ QUOTE ]

in beer pong, almost completely full. every hit on the cup means you drink 1/4 of it. a 'plop', meaning the balls lands in the cup, means you owe a full beer.

a typical beer pong game by my senior year at Union meant 15-20 beers per person in a standard 21 point game.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 02:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That is beer pong, aka Beirut.

I normally play with 10 cups if it's a small gathering, 6 cups if there are 10+ people playing.

I've never played it with paddles, but I've heard of this being done in the midwest.

The bounce is a legal shot, but can be swatted, and if you make it, you must drink 2 cups instead of one.

And cripples should not play this game as shown in your picture. It requires great reflexes to catch the ball when your opponents miss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woot. New Yorkers know wasup.

kenberman
11-15-2005, 02:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
beer pong is played with paddles, just like regular ping pong. except, there are 2 cups per side

[/ QUOTE ]
WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, 2 cups per side. kind of like this (http://smerritt.com/photos/tahoe2/Dec%2031%202002/Beer%20Pong%201.jpg), except we played with each cup about 2 feet in from the side of the table, and 2 feet up from the end.

here are the rules we played played by, as explained in the link beer pong link a few posts back:

FIJI NYU Version
from The unofficial beer pong website, originally submitted by Tripp Owen, NYU

* 1. 12 oz cups, 4 drinks to a cup, drink a full cup on a sink.
* 2. Winner keeps table, 21 game, etc...
* 3. No extra points for sinks.
* 4. In doubles the cups sit about 1 1/2 paddle lengths from the side of the table and the standard 1 paddle length from the top. In singles one cup sits at the center of the table one paddle length from the top.
* 5. The serve is not hit hard, but isn't a lay up either.
* 6. You can't hit the cup on a serve. If you do your opponent gets a point and you drink.
* 7. A point is not in play until the cup is hit, then the point is considered "live".
* 8. Each time your cup is hit, counts as one drink. Regardless of who wins the point, everyone drinks according to the number of times their cup was hit.
* 9. When sunk on, you are allowed to throw the ball back and try to sink your opponents cup. No points are given for a sink on a throwback, but the other player drinks. If you do sink him on the throw back, he then gets to attempt to throw it back in your cup. This keeps going until someone misses. If you are losing and get sunk on game point and you sink the throw back, your opponent loses the point and the game continues.
* 10. Idiots rule = sloppy play = lose point and drink a full cup.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 02:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 02:43 PM
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when the losers have to drink all remaining cups. My brother doesn't play with this rule. The way they play, when one team wins, they just start a new game without drinking the cups on the table.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 02:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I hate it when you're up like 8 cups on someone and then they both start shooting for the same cup at the exact same time, hoping to get lucky. There really isn't any defense against this.

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I hate it when you're up like 8 cups on someone and then they both start shooting for the same cup and the exact same time, hoping to get lucky. There really isn't any defense against this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you know how hard it is for 2 balls to go into the same cup at the same time?

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 02:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when the losers have to drink all remaining cups. My brother doesn't play with this rule. The way they play, when one team wins, they just start a new game without drinking the cups on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, our games are close enough where we don't do this. It conserves beer for pong too, rather than just regular drinking.

Evan
11-15-2005, 02:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never even heard of this.

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when the losers have to drink all remaining cups. My brother doesn't play with this rule. The way they play, when one team wins, they just start a new game without drinking the cups on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, our games are close enough where we don't do this. It conserves beer for pong too, rather than just regular drinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
But I like how it adds a "penalty" for the loser.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 02:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when the losers have to drink all remaining cups. My brother doesn't play with this rule. The way they play, when one team wins, they just start a new game without drinking the cups on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, our games are close enough where we don't do this. It conserves beer for pong too, rather than just regular drinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
But I like how it adds a "penalty" for the loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you lost! You shouldn't get rewarded by getting to drink more!

Bulldog
11-15-2005, 02:52 PM
Wow, 10-cup is for girlie-men. Too much square-footage to aim at. This best variation of this game is 13-cup. One solo cup in the middle, two triangles of six. Must hit the middle cup first, and rerack once six remain.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 02:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I hate it when you're up like 8 cups on someone and then they both start shooting for the same cup and the exact same time, hoping to get lucky. There really isn't any defense against this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you know how hard it is for 2 balls to go into the same cup at the same time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it usually doesn't work...but when it does, one incredibly lucky shot wins the game for a team that's obviously been sucking the whole time. Lame.

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when the losers have to drink all remaining cups. My brother doesn't play with this rule. The way they play, when one team wins, they just start a new game without drinking the cups on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, our games are close enough where we don't do this. It conserves beer for pong too, rather than just regular drinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
But I like how it adds a "penalty" for the loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you lost! You shouldn't get rewarded by getting to drink more!

[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing is stopping you from drinking on the side.

ibankonu
11-15-2005, 02:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Why are one of the cups turned upside down?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, I would normally say this is beer pong, except for the upside down cups on the left side of the pic. I mean, what the hell is that?

Evan
11-15-2005, 02:55 PM
I hope astro bans anyone that re-racks at the shooter's option.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 02:57 PM
re-racks (in a 10 cup game) at 6-4-3-2

6, make a triangle (1-2-3)
4, you can ask for cock and balls (1-1-2), or vagina (1-2-1)
3, triangle (1-2)
2, line (1-1)

Edit-lets say you have 7 cups, and you make 2, you'll have 5 left. you'll get the balls back for making your 2 shots. if you fail to make a cup on the 2nd attempt, you lose your chance for a re-rack (until you get to 4)

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I hope astro bans anyone that re-racks at the shooter's option.

[/ QUOTE ]
I re-rack at shooter's option. Why should you be forced to re-rack when you hit 6 or 3 or whatever if you already have a great rack? You should be able to save it. All part of the strategy.

CheckRaise
11-15-2005, 02:58 PM
Playing with 10 cups we can't re-rack until there are 4 cups left.

GuyOnTilt
11-15-2005, 02:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
re-racks (in a 10 cup game) at 6-4-3-2

6, make a triangle (1-2-3)
4, you can ask for cock and balls (1-1-2), or vagina (1-2-1)
3, triangle (1-2)
2, line (1-1)

[/ QUOTE ]
4 reracks?! How about instead of that, don't suck at shooting.

GoT

splashpot
11-15-2005, 02:59 PM
BTW in a 10 cup game, I play with 2 or 3 re-racks taken at any time.

Evan
11-15-2005, 03:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Playing with 10 cups we can't re-rack until there are 4 cups left.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is really weird.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 03:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
re-racks (in a 10 cup game) at 6-4-3-2

6, make a triangle (1-2-3)
4, you can ask for cock and balls (1-1-2), or vagina (1-2-1)
3, triangle (1-2)
2, line (1-1)

[/ QUOTE ]
4 reracks?! How about instead of that, don't suck at shooting.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

It makes the game go faster, which means more drinking. We play from further way than most, I think.

CheckRaise
11-15-2005, 03:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
BTW in a 10 cup game, I play with 2 or 3 re-racks taken at any time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like too many re-racks, doesn't it make the game too easy?

Georgia Avenue
11-15-2005, 03:06 PM
I was really hoping that this post would be different, so I was forced to FYP:

http://www.drinkinghabits.com/beer-funnel.jpg


What is this?

TheIrishThug
11-15-2005, 03:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
re-racks (in a 10 cup game) at 6-4-3-2

6, make a triangle (1-2-3)
4, you can ask for cock and balls (1-1-2), or vagina (1-2-1)
3, triangle (1-2)
2, line (1-1)

Edit-lets say you have 7 cups, and you make 2, you'll have 5 left. you'll get the balls back for making your 2 shots. if you fail to make a cup on the 2nd attempt, you lose your chance for a re-rack (until you get to 4)

[/ QUOTE ]

those r the times u have the option to rerack, but u only get 2 at most.

JcTc
11-15-2005, 03:28 PM
One thing I am curious about....

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 03:30 PM
No way, are you kidding me? The defending team does not have free reign over the cup formation.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 03:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me and my friends have progressed, we play it like the purpose is to win the game. But, we have this covered. Losers drink all remaining cups. The only reason we have moved away from the two in one cup, is on our annual camping trip each year we have 10 team tournys and it sorta sucks to get a big loss on a technicality. So we are experimenting with making this 3-5 cups. Just to make it clear, the other team is allowed to pull the cup after the first ball is in there, it's not like you have all the time in the world and a stationairy cup. Its VERY hard to get two in one cup. But it still counts if the ball ends up in the cup. Some of the best beirut moments ever is when you can manage to hit that second cup when the guy is taking his sweet time drinking, or waiting to drink. If you bounce it off his chest into the cup? Good times.

What have you kids have to say about retribution?

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 03:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
re-racks (in a 10 cup game) at 6-4-3-2

6, make a triangle (1-2-3)
4, you can ask for cock and balls (1-1-2), or vagina (1-2-1)
3, triangle (1-2)
2, line (1-1)

Edit-lets say you have 7 cups, and you make 2, you'll have 5 left. you'll get the balls back for making your 2 shots. if you fail to make a cup on the 2nd attempt, you lose your chance for a re-rack (until you get to 4)

[/ QUOTE ]

those r the times u have the option to rerack, but u only get 2 at most.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the diamond rack. We play 10, 6, and 3.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 03:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I hope astro bans anyone that re-racks at the shooter's option.

[/ QUOTE ]

You and P-Dirty can play Beirut/Pong with me any time.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 03:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What have you kids have to say about retribution?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a bad rule, but it takes a lot of the drama/celebration out of making the last cup since it no longer seals victory. The "If both players make the retribution shot, they get first shot in OT" rule is BS. The team that "wins" first in regulation should get the first shot in OT, no matter what.

manpower
11-15-2005, 03:53 PM
We play either one on one with six cups, two balls, no reracks, two cup rollbacks, and three cup overtime. When more people are playing it's usually 12 cup with reracks at 6 and 3. Generally each cup contains 3-4 ounces of beer.

And does anyone actually play with paddles? I saw it once and it was very slow and involved very little drinking.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 03:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What have you kids have to say about retribution?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a bad rule, but it takes a lot of the drama/celebration out of making the last cup since it no longer seals victory. The "If both players make the retribution shot, they get first shot in OT" rule is BS. The team that "wins" first in regulation should get the first shot in OT, no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Now are you guys lame,? Do you take "turns" even if it is detrimental to the game? Like, can I throw a ball as soon as you miss--even if it is your partners "turn". Think of a scenario where you both have one cup left on each side.
I had a crazy game at the end of the summer where me and my opponent hit simultaneous last cups. I don't think horse racing instant replay would have been able to determine who's landed first. It was awesome and forced OT...and would have never happened if we took "turns", I.E. If I let his partner shoot the second shot before me and my partner threw our two.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 04:00 PM
You're saying like Players A and B are on one team and players C and D are on the other, player A shoots, then player C shoots before Player B even gets a chance? I don't see this working, people will be too disorganized to figure out whose turn it is.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 04:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You're saying like Players A and B are on one team and players C and D are on the other, player A shoots, then player C shoots before Player B even gets a chance? I don't see this working, people will be too disorganized to figure out whose turn it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but since you have the ability to get "send backs (two in two cups) you generally want to hold out until player A and B go anyway, it's only towards the end of the game, where you want to play "speed pong". FWIW we've never had a problem with turns. I mean 90% of the time the ball ends up at your side and you're only paying attention to two balls. It's pretty easy to know who's turn it is.

I guess my friends are weird, but we really take the "game" into play, where strategy wise it makes no sense for me to let you have two shots in a row at my last cup. There should be some sort of quickness involved as well, just like they shouldn't be allowed to take forever to finish the beer.

Next time you play with people you trust, give speed pong a try, I think you'll like it.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

A 27 yr old guy who takes beirut way too seriously.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 04:17 PM
Just to cover all the bases, in the super rare scenario where the ball rests in the space between three connected cups, how do you deal with this?

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 04:18 PM
wtf?

B00T
11-15-2005, 04:19 PM
We play the following:

10 cups 3 beers per side.

Bounce is 2 cups, bitches blow, both members get it in you get the balls back, reracks at 6 and 3 only. Player B cant shoot til Player A's ball either hits the cups/table/or ground. Losers also finish whatever cups the winners have left. If both balls are in the same cup you lose, but none of that nonsense of shooting at the same time for the same cup.

The 2 balls in same cup end of game rule was created to just ensure people drink fast when the shot is made and not to have a cheap way to win.

In NY/NJ area everyone seems to play with these rules and strangers to new games never really have anything different. The only thing here that hasnt been discussed and the shakiest subject of them all is:: Overtime.

Team 1 hits the final cup. Team 2 still has 2 cups left. What happens?

If Team 1 hits 2 of 2 cups remaining the game is over, no farewell shots for the second team. If one cup is left both members can hit it and the game is over as well. What do you guys do if there is 1 cup made, and the 2nd shooter makes it?

What we do is have the other team automatically in "last licks" type deal. If they have 5 cups left they can technically make all 5 without missing to force a 3 cup overtime.

Other variations are: if the remaining team has 5 cups left, if you hit 2 of them you just dont have to drink those 2 but you already lost once one team has finished cups. Another is each shooter keeps going until he misses as cup. (One person here can run out the final 2-9 cups until he misses) These rules deciding the game's end is the most argued over topic. What do you guys use?

Voltron87
11-15-2005, 04:20 PM
2 vs 2

10 cups

3-4 beers total

each partner on a team gets one shot per round, ie team A member 1 shoots, then team A member 2, then team B follows suit

if both A1 and A2 sink, balls are sent back and team B is skipped.

if A1 makes it in a cup, you take the ball out and leave the cup there. if A2 makes it in the same cup, that cup and two additional cups are removed.

two reracks, shooters choice

bouncing is permitted, it is good for 2 cups. swatting is permitted. if you are playing a more laid back game bouncing can be disabled.

sometimes i've played in places with walls where if you bounced off the wall into a cup it was worth 3. this is a custom rule specific to the place we played.

we play with rebuttal. if team A sinks the last cup, team B gets to shoot until both their members miss. if they can sink all the opponents cups without both missing, the game continues 1 cup on each side. once a team member misses during this they can't shoot again. however, if team a makes it into the last cup again the game is over.



also WTF is that short [censored] table they are playing on, i hate those tables.

B00T
11-15-2005, 04:20 PM
That has never happened in the 1,000+ games I have played and seen in beerpong.

My initial thought is your cups arent racked properly and that it is also physically impossible for that to happen. The only possibly way it could happen is if it is bouncing around on the table really slow, but someone defending those cups would of picked up the ball a long time ago.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 04:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

When three cups are connected in a triangle, the ball will occasionally come to rest in the space between the rims of all three.

Awesemo
11-15-2005, 04:21 PM
3 cups each side, 1 beer for the whole thing

Voltron87
11-15-2005, 04:27 PM
overtime (ie rebuttal)

team A member one: A1

team A member two: A2
team B is B1 and B2.

In my example, Team A has has 3 cups left on its side. Team B has one left.

A1 shoots, misses. A2 shoots, makes it. Team B has no cups left. We enter rebuttal.

Team B gets to shoot until it either forces overtime or both players miss. Once a B player misses he can't shoot again. So, B1 is to shoot. Right now Team A has 3 cups left. B1 makes it. 2 cups left. B2 shoots, misses. This means B2 cannot shoot again during rebuttal. B1 shoots, makes it, 1 cup left. B1 can shoot again. If he misses, the game is over. If he makes it, then both A1 and A2 get one chance each to shoot at a one cup target on B's side. If either of them make it the game is over and Team A wins. If they both miss we go to a 3 cup overtime. This is sudden death, no rebuttal, once a team has no cups left they lose, period.

To clarify the beginning, if A1 is shooting at B's last cup, and makes it, then A2 gets to shoot for the win. If he makes it into the last cup as well the game is over. But if A1 misses and A2 makes it then we have rebuttal.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 04:28 PM
columbia kids play beer pong? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 04:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Other variations are: if the remaining team has 5 cups left, if you hit 2 of them you just dont have to drink those 2 but you already lost once one team has finished cups. Another is each shooter keeps going until he misses as cup. (One person here can run out the final 2-9 cups until he misses) These rules deciding the game's end is the most argued over topic. What do you guys use?

[/ QUOTE ]

We do "shoot till you miss" for both players. This is pretty favorable to the losing team and skilled players can easily take out an entire rack of 6 in one turn when this rule is in effect.

B00T
11-15-2005, 04:35 PM
Yea you and Main Event do the same thing except in your example Team A can still do some shooting before overtime. That is a variation I never heard of.

I do appreciate your clear cut example. I play the same as Main Event with your beginning rules.

Voltron87
11-15-2005, 04:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
new york city private school kids play beirut? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

also i'll add that in overtime the team that made the 10 cups first gets first shot. so in my example team A leads off overtime.

dstraff1
11-15-2005, 04:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two in one cup used to end the game

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad rule IMO Matt. The purpose of the game is to get [censored] up. It is very hard to do this when you are [censored] up. Less cup making means less drinking which means less getting [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have to finish all the beer before the next game

mmbt0ne
11-15-2005, 04:59 PM
This is beer pong. Here our the house rules.

511 BEER PONG RULES

6 Cups in a 3-2-1 triangle, with 2 beers used.

Only one consolidation per game. Must be done before the start of a turn.

If this is a 10 cup game, use 3 beers in a 4-3-2-1 triangle, and you get 2 consolidations to use at your discretion. All other rules are the same.

In order for a shot to be valid, the shooter’s elbow must be behind the white line at all times. An invalid shot is treated as a miss regardless of result, and there is no redo.

If bounced, a ball can be deflected. If the ball goes in, that cup and another one of the defenders’ choice is taken. If the ball bounces off a defender, it counts as a 2-cup shot.

If a team makes both shots, they receive another turn. At this time, a consolidation may take place.

If a ball is hit by a defending team in the air, a cup is taken of the defenders’ choice. The ball does not go back to the thrower.

If a cup is knocked over, the cup is out of play. This is technically not a made shot.

Once the ball is in the cup, it stays. There is NO blowing, fingering, etc. unless there is a unanimous decision by all players that this pussy action will be tolerated.

A made cup is kept on the table until the end of a turn.

By tradition, if someone Bozo’s before the first shot of a game, it’s customary, but not required, to put a dollar in the last cup. If that team wins, the keep the dollar.

ABSOLUTELY NO REBUTTLES

Loser gets the beer for the next game.



The Bozo is a man's man variation where you stack all 6 cups like the Bozo grand prize game, using your consolidation before the first throw.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 05:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
new york city private school kids play beirut? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what i said! columbia kids!

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 05:03 PM
Just reading about "turns" makes me irritated.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 05:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Just reading about "turns" makes me irritated.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I think it's better to preserve a turn system is that in beer pong anything that requires quick action will often result in the cups being knocked over. Just look at swatting bounces.

Of course, if you are playing with normal coordinated humans who can hold their liquor, you could probably pull off a faster paced game. But there's usually one who ruins it. I think the next time someone spills beer at my house after having 15 or less drinks, they are getting a lifetime ban.

Voltron87
11-15-2005, 05:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Just reading about "turns" makes me irritated.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

I have always done A1 then A2 then B1 then B2. you do A1 B1 A2 B2?

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 05:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just reading about "turns" makes me irritated.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

I have always done A1 then A2 then B1 then B2. you do A1 B1 A2 B2?

[/ QUOTE ]

We are doing any combination, it usually works out to A1, A2, B1 B2 until the cups are scarce. (like you guys play) because players want to have both balls so they can get send backs.

I hate when the speed aspect of the game is totally ignored nowadays. If you knock over cups, then you lose em. T.S.

DMBFan23
11-15-2005, 05:28 PM
Beer Pong
Paddles are for punk asses
15 was the most I've ever played but usually 6
bouncing sometimes even counts for two shots but you can definitely swat a bounce.
blowing at our house meant you had to streak a lap around the house

Good post, the two things I would add are overtime rules (EVERYONE does this different) and do you play where you can bring it back if you hit both.

tonypaladino
11-15-2005, 05:30 PM
Beer Pong or Beirut are both appropriate.

10 cups

Ping pong balls.

No paddles. (Gay)

Bounces can be swatted

If one side makes 2 shots they get another shot

NO BLOWING

DMBFan23
11-15-2005, 05:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never even heard of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel a slight sorrow, like someone who doesnt wipe their ass or something...like weren't you taught this?

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 05:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
do you play where you can bring it back if you hit both.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually left this off intentionally because I think its completely unacceptable to not play with this rule. It's the cornerstone of the team aspect of beer pong.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 05:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never even heard of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel a slight sorrow, like someone who doesnt wipe their ass or something...like weren't you taught this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't think he recognizes it. Stacking cups is when you just put a cup inside another cup when it is empty and no longer in use; its dirty.

tonypaladino
11-15-2005, 05:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never even heard of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel a slight sorrow, like someone who doesnt wipe their ass or something...like weren't you taught this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't think he recognizes it. Stacking cups is when you just put a cup inside another cup when it is empty and no longer in use; its dirty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused, what's wrong with stacking the empties? What do you just throw them on the floor?

LoaferGee12
11-15-2005, 05:37 PM

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 05:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]


I'm confused, what's wrong with stacking the empties? What do you just throw them on the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Put them along the side of the table in a one by one/wall set up. This keeps the ping pong ball on the table as well as keeping the bottom/sides of cups from touching the inner portion of the cup (hygeine please!).

kenberman
11-15-2005, 05:40 PM
that 73% of people call this game "Beer Pong".

clearly, the game played on ping pong tables, with ping pong balls, and ping pong paddles, deserved the name beer pong. This game is quite similar to traditional ping pong, except beer cups/drinking are added to the table.

the above game, which can be played on any table, w/o paddles, and which uses ping pong balls, is just a ball throwing game w/ cups. it does not deserve the name beer pong. it is still a fun game, but really has little to do with ping pong.

tonypaladino
11-15-2005, 05:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'm confused, what's wrong with stacking the empties? What do you just throw them on the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Put them along the side of the table in a one by one/wall set up. This keeps the ping pong ball on the table as well as keeping the bottom/sides of cups from touching the inner portion of the cup (hygeine please!).

[/ QUOTE ]

The keeping the cups clean is real important in a game where the ball is being dipped in sludge water after each shot. When I play we usually use new cups for each setup.

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 05:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
that 73% of people call this game "Beer Pong".

clearly, the game played on ping pong tables, with ping pong balls, and ping pong paddles, deserved the name beer pong. This game is quite similar to traditional ping pong, except beer cups/drinking are added to the table.

the above game, which can be played on any table, w/o paddles, and which uses ping pong balls, is just a ball throwing game w/ cups. it does not deserve the name beer pong. it is still a fun game, but really has little to do with ping pong.

[/ QUOTE ]

In high school we called it Beirut. I liked the name and I was determined to represent when I got to college, but so many of my friends called it beer pong, and what's worse, nobody knew what I was talking about whenever I said Beirut. So I just gave in.

I did vote Beirut for old time's sake though.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 05:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'm confused, what's wrong with stacking the empties? What do you just throw them on the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Put them along the side of the table in a one by one/wall set up. This keeps the ping pong ball on the table as well as keeping the bottom/sides of cups from touching the inner portion of the cup (hygeine please!).

[/ QUOTE ]

The keeping the cups clean is real important in a game where the ball is being dipped in sludge water after each shot. When I play we usually use new cups for each setup.

[/ QUOTE ]

It makes a difference. We change our water after each game, and we play in the middle of the woods and our cups last us an entire night. You change after each game? You guys don't play a lot do you? You crazy college kids can't be purchasing 500 solo cups. That's insanity.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 05:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'm confused, what's wrong with stacking the empties? What do you just throw them on the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Put them along the side of the table in a one by one/wall set up. This keeps the ping pong ball on the table as well as keeping the bottom/sides of cups from touching the inner portion of the cup (hygeine please!).

[/ QUOTE ]

The keeping the cups clean is real important in a game where the ball is being dipped in sludge water after each shot. When I play we usually use new cups for each setup.

[/ QUOTE ]

It makes a difference. We change our water after each game, and we play in the middle of the woods and our cups last us an entire night. You change after each game? You guys don't play a lot do you? You crazy college kids can't be purchasing 500 solo cups. That's insanity.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's this thing called "Sam's Club" in the midwest. You can buy 50000000 Solo Cups for what it costs us for 50 in NYC.

CheckRaise
11-15-2005, 05:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'm confused, what's wrong with stacking the empties? What do you just throw them on the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Put them along the side of the table in a one by one/wall set up. This keeps the ping pong ball on the table as well as keeping the bottom/sides of cups from touching the inner portion of the cup (hygeine please!).

[/ QUOTE ]

The keeping the cups clean is real important in a game where the ball is being dipped in sludge water after each shot. When I play we usually use new cups for each setup.

[/ QUOTE ]

New cups for each setup? You guys must be rich, by the end of the night that would be well over 500 cups. I hate the blowing aspect but was playing with some people who use it and got into an arguement with them. If you blow it out of the cup and it bounces into another cup does that count for two cups or one?

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 05:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If you blow it out of the cup and it bounces into another cup does that count for two cups or one?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's only one because if you blow it out, it was never officially in the first cup to begin with.

Homer
11-15-2005, 05:56 PM
The game is Beirut. Three people per team, ten cups per person, any formation. The cups must be 9 ounces. The cups in that picture are way too big -- no skill invoved. No blowing allowed. Bounces/deflections are allowed, however once the ball hits the table or rim the opposition may defend. After you drink a cup, you put it back. If the other team hits the empty, that person drinks. If you're drinking like a slow ass pussy and someone hits that cup again, everyone on your team drinks one. And let me say again, those cups are way, way too big.

Homer
11-15-2005, 05:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The game is Beirut. Three people per team, ten cups per person, any formation. The cups must be 9 ounces. The cups in that picture are way too big -- no skill invoved. No blowing allowed. Bounces/deflections are allowed, however once the ball hits the table or rim the opposition may defend. After you drink a cup, you put it back. If the other team hits the empty, that person drinks. If you're drinking like a slow ass pussy and someone hits that cup again, everyone on your team drinks one. And let me say again, those cups are way, way too big.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is with all this racking? After you drink the cup, put it back where it was. If the other team hits the empty, they drink a cup. There's way more skill involved this way.

Also, do you really all use those big ass cups?

DMBFan23
11-15-2005, 06:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never even heard of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel a slight sorrow, like someone who doesnt wipe their ass or something...like weren't you taught this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't think he recognizes it. Stacking cups is when you just put a cup inside another cup when it is empty and no longer in use; its dirty.

[/ QUOTE ]

just to clarify, I don't feel this way about Evan, I was responding to the OP who was listing his range of emotions when seeing stackers.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 06:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never even heard of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate Evan

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't think he recognizes it. Stacking cups is when you just put a cup inside another cup when it is empty and no longer in use; its dirty.

[/ QUOTE ]

just to clarify, I don't feel this way about Evan, I was responding to the OP who was listing his range of emotions when seeing stackers.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? you clearly stated you mean Evan.

pokerdirty
11-15-2005, 06:14 PM
lol.

Evan
11-15-2005, 06:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys but where I'm from the feeling towards people who "stack" empty cups ranges from contempt to outright hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never even heard of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate Evan

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't think he recognizes it. Stacking cups is when you just put a cup inside another cup when it is empty and no longer in use; its dirty.

[/ QUOTE ]

just to clarify, I don't feel this way about Evan, I was responding to the OP who was listing his range of emotions when seeing stackers.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? you clearly stated you mean Evan.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought.

I still don't understand why you'd stack cups for basically all the reasons that Matt pointed out earlier in the thread.

Chobohoya
11-15-2005, 06:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The game is Beirut. Three people per team, ten cups per person, any formation. The cups must be 9 ounces. The cups in that picture are way too big -- no skill invoved. No blowing allowed. Bounces/deflections are allowed, however once the ball hits the table or rim the opposition may defend. After you drink a cup, you put it back. If the other team hits the empty, that person drinks. If you're drinking like a slow ass pussy and someone hits that cup again, everyone on your team drinks one. And let me say again, those cups are way, way too big.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is with all this racking? After you drink the cup, put it back where it was. If the other team hits the empty, they drink a cup. There's way more skill involved this way.

Also, do you really all use those big ass cups?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that would make [censored] teams play faster, that's for sure.

We used to have a rule where you had to funnel any beer that remained. When we decided to play full cup beiruit, that turned out to be a bad idea, but we kept it anyways...

Evan
11-15-2005, 06:33 PM
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 07:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

F these 2P2 get togethers that involve Poker. There should be an organizing of a NYC Beirut tourny. I actually have a point system based on either round robin, or straight tournament style that would result in a pro-bowl as well.

Evan
11-15-2005, 08:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

F these 2P2 get togethers that involve Poker. There should be an organizing of a NYC Beirut tourny. I actually have a point system based on either round robin, or straight tournament style that would result in a pro-bowl as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
You lost me with the point system, but I like beer.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 08:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

F these 2P2 get togethers that involve Poker. There should be an organizing of a NYC Beirut tourny. I actually have a point system based on either round robin, or straight tournament style that would result in a pro-bowl as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
You lost me with the point system, but I like beer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I got excited. People like to be rated as far as their pong skills go. I have such a rating system, that includes all facets of the game. (even defense)

Phoenix1010
11-15-2005, 08:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That is beirut, which is played with 10 cups and usually 3-4 beers.

Pong is played with paddles, 6 cups, and 4-5 beers (whatever constitutes a full pitcher). A table that short/narrow would make for a really really bad pong game.

[/ QUOTE ]

tonypaladino
11-15-2005, 08:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

F these 2P2 get togethers that involve Poker. There should be an organizing of a NYC Beirut tourny. I actually have a point system based on either round robin, or straight tournament style that would result in a pro-bowl as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in. I suck though, but it's cool, I get to drink more.

tonypaladino
11-15-2005, 08:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'm confused, what's wrong with stacking the empties? What do you just throw them on the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Put them along the side of the table in a one by one/wall set up. This keeps the ping pong ball on the table as well as keeping the bottom/sides of cups from touching the inner portion of the cup (hygeine please!).

[/ QUOTE ]

The keeping the cups clean is real important in a game where the ball is being dipped in sludge water after each shot. When I play we usually use new cups for each setup.

[/ QUOTE ]

It makes a difference. We change our water after each game, and we play in the middle of the woods and our cups last us an entire night. You change after each game? You guys don't play a lot do you? You crazy college kids can't be purchasing 500 solo cups. That's insanity.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's this thing called "Sam's Club" in the midwest. You can buy 50000000 Solo Cups for what it costs us for 50 in NYC.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last few times we got the 500 packs of Solo's from Costco.

And you know damn well I don't live in the midwest. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Phoenix1010
11-15-2005, 08:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

F these 2P2 get togethers that involve Poker. There should be an organizing of a NYC Beirut tourny. I actually have a point system based on either round robin, or straight tournament style that would result in a pro-bowl as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in. I suck though, but it's cool, I get to drink more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in too if it's in December. I'm really good though, but it's cool, my opponents get to drink more.

Voltron87
11-15-2005, 09:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

F these 2P2 get togethers that involve Poker. There should be an organizing of a NYC Beirut tourny. I actually have a point system based on either round robin, or straight tournament style that would result in a pro-bowl as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd definitely be down for this. I think a round robin to determine a "Final Four" with seedings would be the best way to do it.

Boris
11-15-2005, 09:05 PM
I have never played Beer Pong.

DMBFan23
11-15-2005, 09:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

F these 2P2 get togethers that involve Poker. There should be an organizing of a NYC Beirut tourny. I actually have a point system based on either round robin, or straight tournament style that would result in a pro-bowl as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
You lost me with the point system, but I like beer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I got excited. People like to be rated as far as their pong skills go. I have such a rating system, that includes all facets of the game. (even defense)

[/ QUOTE ]

your stock is rising, number 2

TheMainEvent
11-15-2005, 09:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have never played Beer Pong.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're on the west coast, correct? From the participation in this thread I'm starting to think Pong is an east coast/midwest thing.

IndieMatty
11-15-2005, 09:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have never played Beer Pong.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a little younger and a little more east coast, but it's truly the greatest drinking game of all time.

edtost
11-15-2005, 11:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have never played Beer Pong.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a little younger and a little more east coast, but it's truly the greatest drinking game of all time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Robo is far superior.

Chobohoya
11-16-2005, 12:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you play with all full cups? You guys must either be huge drinkers or enjoy very short parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

It only happened one night that I remember*. I know I played at least 5 games, 3 of which were for $40 or more. I think I broke even /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

*that doesnt really limit it.

B00T
11-16-2005, 05:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Also, do you really all use those big ass cups?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we do. What Spaulding is to the NBA, is what Solo is to beer pong.

2+2 wannabe
11-16-2005, 05:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I have never played Beer Pong.

[/ QUOTE ]