NFL MVP final round

[Bulldog]

Ten weeks into the season, and these are 2+2's five finalists for MVP (at this stage). Vote for your choice as winner:

[Clarkmeister]

Wait, I thought it was going to Jake the Snake?

[Jack of Arcades]

Peyton. Carson is acceptable. How did Brady not make the list?

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Wait, I thought it was going to Jake the Snake?

[/ QUOTE ]
Just because Plummer hasn't sucked as bad as everyone has come to expect doesn't mean he should be MVP. I'm still confident he'll remind us all why we think he sucks.

[miajag81]

I don't see how Shaun Alexander isn't the clear favorite here. He is on pace for the best RB season ever.

[Sluss]

Here comes one of my favorite arguments. What makes you an MVP? Is it best season, best stats or most valuable to your team's success? In my mind it has always been most valuable to the team's success.

I think the most valuable player has to be Peyton Manning or LaDainian Tomlinson. If you remove Shaun Alexander the Seahawks are still probably 7-2, maybe 6-3. While he is good in the Red Zone, alot of his success is due to a very good offensive line that could open up holes for most good running backs. Plus, their passing game is above average and could win a game on it's own.

Without Peyton Manning the Colts are dead in the water. He makes all of the play calls and is the catalyst of the best team in football. I made the argument in another thread that if you removed Edge or Harrison the offense would be the same, but if you removed Peyton they are just average.

The same argument can be made for Tomlinson. His three worst games this year have cost his teams games. The game where Philly shut him down and the first two games of the year when they were trying to use him as a decoy.

I don't think a wide reciever can win it. So Steve Smith is out. If John Kitna was at QB the Bengals would be about the same.

[DCWildcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Here comes one of my favorite arguments. What makes you an MVP? Is it best season, best stats or most valuable to your team's success? In my mind it has always been most valuable to the team's success.

I think the most valuable player has to be Peyton Manning or LaDainian Tomlinson. If you remove Shaun Alexander the Seahawks are still probably 7-2, maybe 6-3. While he is good in the Red Zone, alot of his success is due to a very good offensive line that could open up holes for most good running backs. Plus, their passing game is above average and could win a game on it's own.

Without Peyton Manning the Colts are dead in the water. He makes all of the play calls and is the catalyst of the best team in football. I made the argument in another thread that if you removed Edge or Harrison the offense would be the same, but if you removed Peyton they are just average.

The same argument can be made for Tomlinson. His three worst games this year have cost his teams games. The game where Philly shut him down and the first two games of the year when they were trying to use him as a decoy.

I don't think a wide reciever can win it. So Steve Smith is out. If John Kitna was at QB the Bengals would be about the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great post.

[Jack of Arcades]

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I don't see how Shaun Alexander isn't the clear favorite here. He is on pace for the best RB season ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's on pace for the best FANTASY RB Season ever.

It must be fun to run against ARI and STL twice. Oh, also, Houston and Atlanta. Also fun to have the two best O-Linemen on the planet blocking for you on your runs to the left. Jacksonville's about average against the run (just run around the end), Dallas is below average, and Washington is above average. In those games he totaled 55 carries for 232 yards (for a 4.2 average). Oh, he also is not a threat at all in receiving.

Coming up on the schedule: two games vs SF, vs Ind, vs. Ten, and vs GB. The only good run defenses coming up are the Giants and Philly. Alexander's production is an illusion.

[miajag81]

So you're saying having lots of help should stop a guy from getting the award? Should Peyton not have gotten it last year because he has really good WRs and a really good RB? I understand the strength-of-schedule argument, but I don't count that against him as much as you seem to. Alexander has completely carried the Seahawks this year and firmly established himself as the league's #1 or #2 RB.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying having lots of help should stop a guy from getting the award? Should Peyton not have gotten it last year because he has really good WRs and a really good RB? I understand the strength-of-schedule argument, but I don't count that against him as much as you seem to. Alexander has completely carried the Seahawks this year and firmly established himself as the league's #1 or #2 RB.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it doesn't bother you that over half of Shaun's schedule has/will come against bottom ten teams against the run?

How about the fact that only one will come against a top ten team against the run?

How about the fact that Maurice Morris is averaging 5.5 ypc?

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So you're saying having lots of help should stop a guy from getting the award?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but I'm saying it makes his accomplishments a lot less impressive.

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Alexander has completely carried the Seahawks this year and firmly established himself as the league's #1 or #2 RB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you said he had lots of help this year?

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I don't see how Shaun Alexander isn't the clear favorite here. He is on pace for the best RB season ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Shaun Alexander is not on pace to rush for 2000 yards he is on pace for 5th best rushing season ever and if you count recieving yards for running backs he is on pace for about the 45th best season ever. Your comment makes absolutely no sense please try and explain this to me.

[miajag81]

Yes, he is on pace for 2000 rushing yards and 30 touchdowns. None of the other 2000 yard rushers had close to 30 TDs. Despite his relatively weak opponents and great O-line, which Jack pointed out, he has been more impressive than anyone else this year on the poll with the possible exception of LT.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, he is on pace for 2000 rushing yards and 30 touchdowns. None of the other 2000 yard rushers had close to 30 TDs. Despite his relatively weak opponents and great O-line, which Jack pointed out, he has been more impressive than anyone else this year on the poll with the possible exception of LT.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you don't look impressive DESPITE weak competition and a great o-line, you look impressive BECAUSE of it.

[miajag81]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, he is on pace for 2000 rushing yards and 30 touchdowns. None of the other 2000 yard rushers had close to 30 TDs. Despite his relatively weak opponents and great O-line, which Jack pointed out, he has been more impressive than anyone else this year on the poll with the possible exception of LT.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you don't look impressive DESPITE weak competition and a great o-line, you look impressive BECAUSE of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity, who did your vote go to of the guys on this list?

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Alexander's production is an illusion.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, five consecutive years of at least 15 TDs has to be a fluke, right?

[lastchance]

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How did Brady not make the list?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Pudge714]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, he is on pace for 2000 rushing yards and 30 touchdowns. None of the other 2000 yard rushers had close to 30 TDs. Despite his relatively weak opponents and great O-line, which Jack pointed out, he has been more impressive than anyone else this year on the poll with the possible exception of LT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fantasy football has severly overinflated the value of touchdowns. Realistically yardage, ypc, etc. are much better indicators of skill. Shaun's 30tds are largely a byproduct of him getting all the red zone carries. IMO no other team in the NFL has such a clear redzone option so consistently so nobody steals his redzone touches.

[Jack of Arcades]

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[ QUOTE ]
Alexander's production is an illusion.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, five consecutive years of at least 15 TDs has to be a fluke, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Gee, check his ypc. Career average of around 4.4 coming into this season, and now it's 5.4. Yeah, that might just be a fluke. Yay small sample size/favorable schedule!

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, he is on pace for 2000 rushing yards and 30 touchdowns. None of the other 2000 yard rushers had close to 30 TDs. Despite his relatively weak opponents and great O-line, which Jack pointed out, he has been more impressive than anyone else this year on the poll with the possible exception of LT.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't arguing your vote for shaun for MVP I was saying that there is no way he is on pace for the best season for a running back ever, he has played a lot of soft defenses which has inflated his stats and even if he continues at the pace he is at he will not be close to the best rb season ever. Another problem I have with shaun is most great running backs in recent history have been double threats as running backs and recievers but shaun is a non factor in the passing game.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Alexander has completely carried the Seahawks this year

[/ QUOTE ]

No he hasn't.

b

[McGahee]

Lots of valid comments in this thread.
Right now I'd give it to Steve Smith because he's carried an offense that has scored 20+ points in every game with really no other options; and they're leading a pretty good division.
Tomlinson gets serious consideration if the Chargers make the playoffs.
I agree with the anti-Alexander people - Fantasy Football has warped people's minds and I want to see him run against a good defense.
Palmer has to lead his team to the division and a win in Pittsburgh IMO - so far he's come up small in the biggest game of the year at home.

[Bulldog]

Shaun Alexander is your winner. He was my second choice (behind LT) but he is a good choice, IMHO.