Correct play or unnecessary gamble?

[Gus]

online, one table tournament, 10$+1. All player unknown to me. The small blind (leader in chips at about T5000) seems to be on the loose side.

Blinds 50/100, 7 players left, I'm on the button with about T2500 (basically 2nd so far... another player has about the same as me).

I'm dealt A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 7 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . Folded to me I make it 250 to go, the small blind raise to 400, big blind folds, I call (pot 900).

Flop : 4 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif
giving me an open ended straight draw. SB checks, I bet the pot, he calls.

Turn : 9 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif
sb bets 1000... That puts me all in if I call... I call, don't improve on the river and lose to AKo.

After this hand I felt I had been gambling on every street, whereas I should have waited for a bit of a stronger hand before having a go at the chip leader.

Any comment welcome please.

[Justaloser]

Tough situation to be in. You've got to know you're in trouble when he reraised you preflop. That's where you put yourself in trouble. Usually, the SB won't aggressively defend a blind steal unless they have something. They're not fully invested in the pot, so it's safer to get out with only half a bet than losing a lot more with a medium hand.

On the flop, he's not going to put you on a str or flush draw, so unless you can convince him you've got a high pair, he'll call. Perhaps a check behind him? Sure it lets him know that you're not strong, but might save you your stack.

On the turn, by this point you're married to the pot. You've now got an open ended str draw and a flush draw. Lots of outs, and with how much you've invested in the pot it would be tough to fold now.

I'll back up a second and ask this question. When you're playing A7s, what are you wanting from the board? Are you hoping for an open ended str draw? When I'm playing Axs, I'm looking for a flush and a reason to fold. If the flush draw doesn't come (and I mean two of my suit on the flop), I'm gonna be hard pressed to call any raise.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Fold to the reraise preflop.

On the flop, his check is suspicious and all you have is a draw. This would smell like a check-raise (could he have reraised preflop with 66?)I'd be more worried about 99 or TT. I don't see a great course of action other than checking behind or pushing all-in, and I'd lean towards checking with the intent of releasing the hand unless you hit your draw.

Once you hit the river, you have to call his bet. You're a 2-1 dog to hit your draw, but the pot's giving you 3.7-1. You're committed.

I guess the moral of the story is not to call a preflop reraise with a marginal hand. Tom McEvoy writes that too many players overvalue a suited A, and I'd wager you wouldn't have called that reraise (or maybe even open-raised)with A7o. The fact that the 2 cards are suited only adds about 7% equity to the hand, plus a reraise from the SB means a very strong hand. Well, I'm sure you get the point. No use beating a dead horse.

[fnurt]

I don't think I could bring myself to fold to a 150 raise with 750 in the pot.

On the flop I completely agree that the check is suspicious. It would be very unusual for someone to make a mini-reraise preflop and then not even try to buy the pot one way or another. I would definitely check behind and then see how much he bets on the turn. Who knows, you might make him regret giving a free card.

[Jon Matthews]

ok, because he's on the loose side i can see why you called the preflop raise, i probably would have, although it was a strange amount to raise and i might have been thinking about this during the hand

on the flop you get your str draw, not what i would have wanted, obviously would have preferred the flush draw - i would be looking for excuses to get out of this and may have checked behind him on the flop or thrown out a small bet, possibly minimum to pretend i'm trapping and hope he senses a trap and doesn't raise - one reason for looking for excuses is if you make your straight the board will be screaming it and you lose all your implied odds, just like when a flush hits so your win isn't going to get any bigger. this is a much better hand to have in a multi way pot.

i don't think the pot bet was justified as you didn't already have something like a pair

if it was played this way then the turn would be a different situation as you wouldn't be pot commited and may not face an all in bet - i would probably fold to anything more than the pot here

Jon

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If you ask me, the guy who won the pot played the entire hand terribly. Our hero deserved to hit his draw and bust him out.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Unlike Kurn, I sure don't fold preflop for 150 more, especially with position on the guy.

When he checks the flop, I wouldn't bet the pot. There is 900 in the pot, and I believe 2100 in your stack. Betting the pot is close to half your stack. I would check, bet about 500-600, or go all-in.

Given his mini-reraise and subsequent check, I think he's trapping more often than he's preparing to fold to your bet, so I would usually check. Of the times I might bet, all-in would be my preferred bet in this spot, one of the few situations where I overbet the pot.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I yield on calling the preflop reraise, now that I look back and realize how small both bets were.

Would you advocate folding A7s in this situation to a pot-sized reraise?

[Greg (FossilMan)]

If you mean, after raising to 250, would I fold if the reraise were to a number more like 800 rather than 400, the answer is yes. Generally, I would fold A7 to a pot-sized reraise.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Gus]

Thank you all for your comments/advices... highly appreciated. It's now pretty clear to me that my biggest mistake was trying to steal-semibluff on the flop instead of taking the free card.

[Guy McSucker]

This hand illustrates a point that I have been making (to myself) in recent weeks.

I am a terrible reader of people's playing styles. Really. Very very bad. Until a few weeks ago my notes on players in the pokerstars client pretty much just said "He sucks" or "He doesn't suck." Well, not quite, but they weren't very insightful.

One thing that I have been able to pin down with some consistency lately is what a mini-raise means from each player. A great many people do it - not me though - and for each player it seems to have a consistent meaning.

For this guy, the mini-raise meant he had a real hand. Write that down.
It will mean the same the next time too.

For others in the SB it would just mean that they wanted to take you off your likely steal raise at minimum cost. My observation is that people do not seem to vary their use of the minimum raise in these games.

Guy.

[SeanM]

When the SB raises the minimum it usually indicates he has a monster hand. His is superior so he wants to get more in the pot while at the same time hoping to recieve action from the original raiser. Perosnally, I dont like this play because I view it as a tell, as you ahve pointed out. I would normally reraise alot, letting him consider that I may think he was stealing and now am steeling myself.

I also am a fan of simply calling the raise and then reraising on the flop when he tries to steal.
What are your opinions of this play?

[Jon Matthews]

That's why I suggested a minimum bet in my post in this thread. It's not a raise but it shows strength, it looks more like a potbuilder and is cheap. If used sparingly it can change the dynamic of the hand in your favour by making your opponent over cautious.

Also if someone bets the flop and you suspect a bluff, a mini raise is a really good and cheap info getter. A small, say 1/3 pot bet subsequently on the turn can get someone to release a hand where a pot raise on the flop may not have.

I've found it to be a nice move but not used when I have a strong hand like the opponent in this case.

Jon