How do you play fifth here?

[lstream]

Seat 4 is a fish - seat 8 is OK.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter (http://j.1asphost.com/greenage))

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif___completes___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls

4th Street - (7.20 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks___calls
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls

5th Street - (5.10 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets___calls
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls___???
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___raises

[Jeffage]

I would have raised 5th myself. I see it as more likely that 8 seat started with something like QQ (or some other PP) in the hole since the ace is dead and he played 3rd and 4th a little odd if he had aces. I raise and hope to get it heads up so I have a better to chance to win if I catch two pair. But that's me.

Jeff

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised 5th myself. I see it as more likely that 8 seat started with something like QQ (or some other PP) in the hole since the ace is dead and he played 3rd and 4th a little odd if he had aces. I raise and hope to get it heads up so I have a better to chance to win if I catch two pair. But that's me.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

So you raise right off the bat to get HU with JJ33?

[Jeffage]

I'm not sure I follow but yes, I would have raised 5th right off the bat.

Jeff

[benwood]

Yea,if you raise & get seat 8 out, yoy can check behind on 6th if you prefer. Seat 4 can't know that you'r not on 2 pr. yet, so he will probably check to you.

[BeerMoney]

I find I waste a lot of $$ attempting to "get it heads up", because i do it at the wrong times, but this certainly seems like a really good spot for it. I wish you posted fifth street in 2 parts so my thoughts would be unadulterated. I think the raise to "get it heads up" is overused in small stakes game. I wouldn't fault you for trying it here, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work out. One thing I'm not sure about , is if your opponent in seat 8 has a smaller pair, is if you're more than 1/3 to win, assuming the other guy has jacks up. So, raising here might be a freeroll.

I was suprised by these sims. I figured since he already made 2 pair, he'd be a bigger favorite.

villan has/ villian wins%
(Jc 7c) 58.43%

[lstream]

Here is how the rest of the hand played out. My kings up ended up winning the pot versus jacks up. I figured maybe seat 8 was on some kind of isolation/semi bluff so I decided to carry on.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter (http://j.1asphost.com/greenage))

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif___completes___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls

4th Street - (7.20 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks___calls
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls

5th Street - (5.10 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets___calls
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___raises

6th Street - (11.10 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks

River - (11.10 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif xx___checks___calls
Hero: T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets
Seat 8: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___folds

Total pot: (13.10 BB)

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
I find I waste a lot of $$ attempting to "get it heads up", because i do it at the wrong times, but this certainly seems like a really good spot for it. I wish you posted fifth street in 2 parts so my thoughts would be unadulterated. I think the raise to "get it heads up" is overused in small stakes game. I wouldn't fault you for trying it here, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work out. One thing I'm not sure about , is if your opponent in seat 8 has a smaller pair, is if you're more than 1/3 to win, assuming the other guy has jacks up. So, raising here might be a freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the guy with the Ace probably has a smaller pair in the hole, you actually want him out because, even though his ace is dead, it still gives him too many ways (4) to outdraw your potential Ks up that you are going to need to win this pot. If he had a smaller kicker than your pair (< Ks) then you would actually want to just call to keep him in because in that situation his call makes you money (you have greater than 1/3 chance of winning the pot) and he has only 2 outs to trips to let him beat your potential Ks up. You also might get a free card on 6th with a raise, as Jeffage pointed out...but an astute opponent will probably bet into you again on 6th, figuring you for making an isolation play (it is still worth it to isolate v. such an opponent).