Buying in too big?

[JJNJustin]

I have been watching and playing in the no-limit games in Detroit, and it is my observation that most players buy-in far too high for the stakes that are being gambled on a per/hand basis. For example, the blinds in the Detrot games are $2,$5,and $5, yet it is not uncommon for players to buy-in for $3500 or more. This wouldnt be bad if they were using this stack to their advantage, yet I almost never see confrontations involving even a significant portion of this stack. It is my feeling that buying in big, while giving a player a sense of power or dominance, may not be the best strategy if you dont intend to use your stack to your advantage. Basically, it removes the power of the "all-in" play, since players are reluctant to use it in 99% of the situations because the size of the pot in relationship to their stack is relatively small.

Wouldnt it be more effective to buy-in for say $400 and keep many rebuys in your pocket. Now moving in becomes a more reasonable play in many more situations. After all, the all-in play is the most powerful play in this game, so why buy in for such a ridiculously high amount that you never intend to use and keeps you from using the all-in move effectively, either as a bluff or semi-bluff or whatever.

In my opinion, buying in too big has it's disadvantages as well as its obvious advantages. Most of all, it can leave a player vulnerable during the later streets with a great but not "nut" hand. For example, if you hold three of a kind on the river and a straight shows, it would be difficult to call $2500 of your chips in an $500 pot. However, if you had bought in for less, you might have already been all-in before the river and hence have removed the bluff play from your opponent.

These are just some observations I've had watching no-limit in Detroit. Guys are buying in for $3500 or $10,000 in this game, where the blinds are $2,$5, and $5. My guess is they are passing on many lucrative gambles and waiting for that one big score when they hold four of a kind or a straight flush. What a pathetic strategy.

Am I off base here?

What are the advantages/disadvantages to buying in small and planning to rebuy if you bust or buying in very big.

peace
-J

[AZK]

It's cause the greektown players suck. A few buyin deep and know how to use it. Most don't. Consider yourself lucky to be able to play in this game. I miss it.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Basically, it removes the power of the "all-in" play, since players are reluctant to use it in 99% of the situations because the size of the pot in relationship to their stack is relatively small.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
After all, the all-in play is the most powerful play in this game,

[/ QUOTE ]

The all in play is not the most powerful play in NLH. Imagine that /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[flawless_victory]

i didnt read the whole post, but i read part of it.
it sucks.
i suggest u dont buy in too deep, but only sdo u can prevent yourself from losing too much.

[thabadguy]

If,You know how to play deepstack better than ur opponent u wanna cover every single one of them.

[mikech]

[ QUOTE ]
i didnt read the whole post, but i read part of it.
it sucks.
i suggest u dont buy in too deep, but only sdo u can prevent yourself from losing too much.

[/ QUOTE ]
not a bad putdown, flawless, but halfway down the page in another great thread by jjnjustin, diablo's zinger is better: "do you think you are worse at limit or no-limit?" (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3570186&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1)

[James282]

I am serious when I say this: you are probably the only poster whom I do a search on once a week to see if you've started any new threads. This thread is another gem that I will add to my favorites. Thanks!
-James

[JJNJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
It's cause the greektown players suck. A few buyin deep and know how to use it. Most don't. Consider yourself lucky to be able to play in this game. I miss it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I know AZK has played regularly in the Detroit games, and his response tells me I'm not too far off in my observation which is that buying in too big if you cant use it effectively is not such a great idea.

As for the other replies... You dont seem to realize that I dont care about what you write as much as you seem to care about what I write. Your posts dont move me enough to regularly search your old threads and reply with put downs usually involving the word "suck".

-J

[etizzle]

i played in this game last night, was the one of the best games i've ever played in. 7 people to the flop for 35 bucks, and no one making it to showdown. I think I made about 1400 without turning over my cards.

[JJNJustin]

Another thing I've noticed in the Detroit no-limit games is that players tend to overbet big pairs on the flop. Their thinking tends to be "Let me push everyone off of the pot before they catch something." I think this type of strategy will only result in getting little action when you hold the best hand and getting trapped when you hold the worst hand.

-J

[AZK]

I hope you can stick around for the 10/25 NL they spread on Friday afternoon-Saturday. That game is insane. If you know how to play PLO, stop wasting your time playing the NLHE there and go sit at the 5/10PLO. If I started off learning PLO rather than NLHE while building my roll at that casino, I could have retired.

[etizzle]

yeah i was just up there for the weekend for the umich/IU game and the lions/cardinals game.

what a weekend, and bazouki's down the street from the casino was the perfect nightcap. Just sucked that they closed down at 2am.

i agree that buying in too high can be a bad policy. I was playing at the wynn 1/2 game with no max buy. Guys were buying in for like 3500 it was crazy. There was this one pot i remember that two of those large stack were up against each other. One guy who seemed to be an old western charatacher kept saying "Cowboy up, Im all in" Half the time it seemed he was just bluffing out the smaller stacks. But he did it in one pot that was like 100$. Then the other player sitting on like 3k had something decent you could tell, but he was not willing to call off all his chips. Had he bought in for a smaller amount he could have made the play he wanted to

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i didnt read the whole post, but i read part of it.
it sucks.
i suggest u dont buy in too deep, but only sdo u can prevent yourself from losing too much.

[/ QUOTE ]
not a bad putdown, flawless, but halfway down the page in another great thread by jjnjustin, diablo's zinger is better: "do you think you are worse at limit or no-limit?" (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3570186&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1)

[/ QUOTE ]
thx for that link, seriously...
had me LOLing.

[mikech]

[ QUOTE ]
i agree that buying in too high can be a bad policy. I was playing at the wynn 1/2 game with no max buy. Guys were buying in for like 3500 it was crazy. There was this one pot i remember that two of those large stack were up against each other. One guy who seemed to be an old western charatacher kept saying "Cowboy up, Im all in" Half the time it seemed he was just bluffing out the smaller stacks. But he did it in one pot that was like 100$. Then the other player sitting on like 3k had something decent you could tell, but he was not willing to call off all his chips. Had he bought in for a smaller amount he could have made the play he wanted to

[/ QUOTE ]
look, if your bankroll isn't healthy enough or you're not willing to lose more than a certain amount on a given hand, then of course you shouldn't buy in deeper than your comfort level; this is obvious stuff.

re: the "cowboy up" guy, was he an older gentleman in his 60s or 70s, with a cowboy hat and the whole getup, and a really big nose? if so, i played 5-10 or 2-5 with him at the mgm on my last trip to vegas, he was GREAT action. the wynn wasn't open yet at the time, and the mgm had capped buy-ins, but i would love to have "cowboy up" at my table with the option to cover him.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you can stick around for the 10/25 NL they spread on Friday afternoon-Saturday. That game is insane. If you know how to play PLO, stop wasting your time playing the NLHE there and go sit at the 5/10PLO. If I started off learning PLO rather than NLHE while building my roll at that casino, I could have retired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the PLO just on weekends? Thanks.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you can stick around for the 10/25 NL they spread on Friday afternoon-Saturday. That game is insane. If you know how to play PLO, stop wasting your time playing the NLHE there and go sit at the 5/10PLO. If I started off learning PLO rather than NLHE while building my roll at that casino, I could have retired.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh man. road trip time.

[BIgMc]

The all-in play is the most powerful play...
IN TOURNAMENT'S
In a cash game, it's only as powerful as the depth of your pockets. It's only good to buy in deep if you know how to use the chips. Other than that, I agree with you. There is no real advantage of buying in deep sitting at a cash game. Only perks. One would be catching nuts against second nuts with the other deep stack. The other would be all the miniskirts hanging out around the table.

[hectorjelly]

Im pretty sure I played that old guy several times at the Plaza 1 2nl game, very nice man. He would buy in for about 20 times what anyone had at the table and then lose a little bit of it to me whilst talking in what I can only guess is an old time western manner.